Maurus
The Great Gazoo
If you are happy going from crap pay to a raise to crap pay I certainly hope you don't join me at the same job.
Key Lime Air Piston Pay Raise
- Thread starter TallFlyer
- Start date
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Best post in this whole thread.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
just now, for me, crap pay is a step up, so, yeah, I'd likely be happy to take it.
Like I said to kiloalpha, constant bitching doesn't make you one of the cool kids that everybody wants to hang out with, it makes you a pain in the ass, a buzzkill.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Yes, so don't say anything and let the new people in the industry make damaging mistakes. Gotcha.
Just because a place pays better than flight instructing doesn't mean it is an "upgrade" for you. You typically get treated on an equivalent level of how you get paid at these places. Which is absolute crap. Until recently kiloalpha was a Key Lime cheerleader. Seeing his 180 should be a good example of Key Lime treatment to pilots.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
constant bitching is not saying nothing- it's saying the same thing over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over... understand?
Naw,Yes, so don't say anything and let the new people in the industry make damaging mistakes. Gotcha.
Consider the sample size. There are guys that have been here 10 years because they get to be home with their families every day and there are guys that will bolt for something better the first chance they get. It's just the nature of the beast at this level.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
So ignore it? He only seemed to repeat himself since you don't seem to care beyond
this.
Pay isn't everything. It helps, but crap pay will typically = crap treatment. Especially in the 135 world.
Exactly. There are lots of people on here with lots of negative things to say about former employers. 99% of them can do it with some level of tact while still getting their point across.
But hey, since he's the smart one I'll just quote him one more time:
kiloalpha said:
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
How chummy are the more or less "lifers" with management? I have seen different treatment between senior guys and new guys at places I have worked. Usually because management were equals with these guys in the past before turning to management.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that crap pay typically indicates crap treatment, however if you'll re-read the opening post, you'll notice that he's not talking about what pilots who have been there 5 to10 years, he's talking about new hires and pilots in their first couple of years, which means he's talking about an entry level wage for an entry level position. In that context, the pay is prety damned good
So consider the lifer that gets it done without outside supervision and the newbie who whines a lot. Should they both be treated the same? If you're working with someone who you consider a friend and you get along with well should that relationship change because your friend becomes the DO?
It's Ok. The new raise is more important not because of the increase in pay (which it is) but because it gives the junior guys a LOT more security in whats on their paycheck.
As far as crap treatment, I've been in better places, I've been in worse places.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
This. Right here. There's about 5 lifers that will never move on to anything else. Beside the fact that they are in bed with management (ie. "team leaders"), they also get paid extra for being in those positions and for being there so long. In fact one of those lifers doesn't even work 6 days like the rest of the pilots. He only works 4, and gets paid more than any other pilot. No one really knows why they do that but he is probably costing the company more money than any other pilot. Now why can't the rest of KLAs pilots have a helper to load and unload the airplanes at the out station? Why can't the other KLA pilots work only 4 days a week?
When I was there, I busted my ass off trying to keep my job and my many bosses happy. I didn't see one bit of genuine gratitude. I didn't need supervision as Chuckie says I would've as a new guy. I didn't whine a lot to management (only when dispatch screwed me over on my schedule) but from what I here, we have a hypocrite here. Seems someone in this thread complained to management about a mechanic not being nice therefore said mechanic got a warning letter. Wow. Just wow.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
As far as consequences yes it should change. Say a lifer gets a slap on the wrist for taking a prop into taxi light and the newer guy gets fired. That sets a bad precedent and will only serve to piss off the pilot group.
Trust me. It isn't. You may look at it as being good from your perspective, but making $27500 isn't that much at all your first year. I know because I have made more and it still sucked. Heck, even first year regional guys are starting to make more than that their first year with better perks and more protection. AMF has $28,000 for the first year, and it has been that way for a long long time. It sucks, but when our major competitors are all paying their guys less there is no incentive to pay us more.
At least with AMF there are ways to increase that pay a good amount. I was around the $33k mark for my first year. Second year looks to be around the $45k+ mark. That seems to be impossible at Key Lime. Especially if you get stuck on a 4 day run. (20% less pay as a result). At AMF I have had several weeks of doing absolutely nothing (AM reserve rocked) and still getting paid 5 days a week minimum. Just because it is an "entry level" job it doesn't mean it is "ok" to be paid crap. There are other entry level jobs hiring right now that pay better and treat their people better. Airnet, AMF, Encore, Freight Runners, Flight Express, ect.
Yeah, because, you know, seniority and responsibility have NOTHING to do with how much you should get paid.
Pretty sure he's not the only guy who works four days a week. The only time I've ever seen him not working harder than the rest of us is when he's instructing and making his student do it.
Show me where I said all newbies needed supervision. And I'm Chuck Freakin' Yeager and don't you forget it.
News to me. Everyone I've worked with on the line or APA has been pretty good.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Never said that. But being paid an extra $12k a year on top of a salary of $50k for working 4 days a week doesn't exactly scream fairness with those who are just, if not more, hard working than JO. Besides, when your DO goes beyond micro managing and does the job of the team leaders, what do they need them for? A round table discussion every 2 months on how to retain pilots? Yeah cause those work great.
OK:
Yeah, don't try to play dumb on this one. Do you forget I used to work there or something? I still keep in touch with a lot of people, and they all tell me the same things about you. Psssst... try to stay away from the ops van in the morning.
Why didn't you stay at your better job? Or did they not deserve the quality flying that only Chuckie can bring?
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Here's the thing... you can say I'm bitching and whining about KLA. Frankly your opinion doesn't really matter to me since you're doing exactly what you're trying to blame me for. However, in light of many of my friends losing thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to defend themselves from a scumbag operation like KLA, I have vowed to continue giving them a bad rep since I don't want to see it happen to any one else. Hell, I wouldn't even want you to work there. That's how much I dislike the company. So, as long as KLA posts ads on CT350, as long as Chuckie continues to say how great KLA is, as long as they are trying to recruit, I'll be there to say no, you REALLY don't want to do this. I'll be there to prevent unsuspecting pilots from making a huge mistake. Sure, I could just sit back, keep my mouth shut and watch the world burn. But when you can try to right the wrong, why do nothing?
Ah, that lifer. Ok. So let me make sure I've got this straight: you're whining about the fact that the pilot with just about the most seniority works less and makes more?
Well, my immediate supervisor hasn't passed on any thing to me specifically, nor has anyone above him. But I guess they all talk to you. Ok. All I know if that I haven't made any complaints about anyone in mx, or anyone else for that matter, to anyone.
Because staying at a strictly 135 Op in AK, while a lot of fun, doesn't really get you much beyond that.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I heard you'll step on anyone and anything to get ahead... bad karma.
