Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's?
- Thread starter ThatOtherDude
- Start date
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I know I'm hijacking here a little, but didn't the republicans shut down the federal government over the budget? Contract with America and all that jazz?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I'm not sure it was quite all the republicans doing. The folks that are actually to the left (and I don't mean democrats) kinda hate the guy.
I'm not sure it was quite all the republicans doing. The folks that are actually to the left (and I don't mean democrats) kinda hate the guy.
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
Still sounds to me like the older guys on their way out, don't care about the guys that are up and comming. If it's like this now, imagine what it will be like when those up and commers get to the "glorified" senoirity level, and are still getting screwed because of the mentality that most here seems to have. "Oh, I'll just wait it out untill I can upgrade to captain, and then it will be o.k." Sorry, but it has been getting worse for a real long time, and hasn't turned around yet. What makes everyone think that if you take the "let's wait and see" attitude that things will majiacally get better.
You have to stand up and fight for yourselves. Pentions are now 401k's (the single biggest joke in retirement, dependant on a good economy), and pay has remained the same for over TWENTY YEARS! Seems like the everything is o.k. attitude has worked out real well.
Simply put, there is not enough pilots out there with the quals to fly the airplanes if everyone walked out (or even slightly more than half). And, if there was more than half of the pilot work force who had been fired, then they would only have those type of people to choose from. Still not a bad situation to be in.
Saftey in numbers. Stand together and win, or stand by yourself and get the shaft. As far as firing the union leaders (jtrain), would that be such a bad thing, look at where they have gotten the industry now. Kinda reminds me of AIG. Give 'em rentention bonuses for having to take billions in gov. aid to keep them from bankruptcy. Yeah, lets reward poor performance with millions in $$$'s like "thanks for all your hard work in running us into the ground. Hows $15 mil sound for that?"
Last note: I didn't get into this industry for the money. I got into it because I wanted my son to see his daddy do something he loved, rather than something he could just do. But I would also like to make enough money to send him to college, and buy a home for myself. I don't know how I could ever do that if I decided to become an airline pilot. I made more today (1 day of flight instruction, 4 2 hour blocks) than most FO's make in 3. And I thought paying your dues was supposed to be a steady progression upwards, not one step forward(flight instructor), 2 steps back(FO for a regional).
I'm not flaming/bashing the airline guys. I'm trying to motivate to get ya'll to stand up for what your worth, and what you've invested into becoming an airline pilot, even if it is only your first year.
Still sounds to me like the older guys on their way out, don't care about the guys that are up and comming. If it's like this now, imagine what it will be like when those up and commers get to the "glorified" senoirity level, and are still getting screwed because of the mentality that most here seems to have. "Oh, I'll just wait it out untill I can upgrade to captain, and then it will be o.k." Sorry, but it has been getting worse for a real long time, and hasn't turned around yet. What makes everyone think that if you take the "let's wait and see" attitude that things will majiacally get better.
You have to stand up and fight for yourselves. Pentions are now 401k's (the single biggest joke in retirement, dependant on a good economy), and pay has remained the same for over TWENTY YEARS! Seems like the everything is o.k. attitude has worked out real well.
Simply put, there is not enough pilots out there with the quals to fly the airplanes if everyone walked out (or even slightly more than half). And, if there was more than half of the pilot work force who had been fired, then they would only have those type of people to choose from. Still not a bad situation to be in.
Saftey in numbers. Stand together and win, or stand by yourself and get the shaft. As far as firing the union leaders (jtrain), would that be such a bad thing, look at where they have gotten the industry now. Kinda reminds me of AIG. Give 'em rentention bonuses for having to take billions in gov. aid to keep them from bankruptcy. Yeah, lets reward poor performance with millions in $$$'s like "thanks for all your hard work in running us into the ground. Hows $15 mil sound for that?"
Last note: I didn't get into this industry for the money. I got into it because I wanted my son to see his daddy do something he loved, rather than something he could just do. But I would also like to make enough money to send him to college, and buy a home for myself. I don't know how I could ever do that if I decided to become an airline pilot. I made more today (1 day of flight instruction, 4 2 hour blocks) than most FO's make in 3. And I thought paying your dues was supposed to be a steady progression upwards, not one step forward(flight instructor), 2 steps back(FO for a regional).
I'm not flaming/bashing the airline guys. I'm trying to motivate to get ya'll to stand up for what your worth, and what you've invested into becoming an airline pilot, even if it is only your first year.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
After the staffing model for ATL changed and now we've got CAs that have been on RSV 1+ years, I'm betting we'll see some RSV rule changes. I let Rex chime in with the percentage of guys in ATL on RSV, but I know there's some 2 year FOs still on RSV in ATL. It's insane the amount of RSVs they keep down there in order to keep the staffing model going. The "majority" of the pilots there may be line holders, but it's no more than a 5-10 point difference. The fact that RSV has gone from a 3 month minor headache to a multi-year nightmare here has plenty of guys screaming for better RSV work rules. The guys on the edge and the junior line holders want it just in case they find themselves back on RSV and the guys on RSV want it b/c we'd like to have some semblance of a life back. The only people that seem not to care are the top 10% of the seniority list. The senior FOs (most of them) know they're gonna have to deal with RSV as CAs. RSV is so heinous here, I've heard some of the displaced CAs say they'll bypass upgrade if it comes around again and stay FOs rather than deal with RSV. The negotiating committee has been told multiple times that RSV rules are a definite must on the improvement side. Same with first and second year FO pay.
After the staffing model for ATL changed and now we've got CAs that have been on RSV 1+ years, I'm betting we'll see some RSV rule changes. I let Rex chime in with the percentage of guys in ATL on RSV, but I know there's some 2 year FOs still on RSV in ATL. It's insane the amount of RSVs they keep down there in order to keep the staffing model going. The "majority" of the pilots there may be line holders, but it's no more than a 5-10 point difference. The fact that RSV has gone from a 3 month minor headache to a multi-year nightmare here has plenty of guys screaming for better RSV work rules. The guys on the edge and the junior line holders want it just in case they find themselves back on RSV and the guys on RSV want it b/c we'd like to have some semblance of a life back. The only people that seem not to care are the top 10% of the seniority list. The senior FOs (most of them) know they're gonna have to deal with RSV as CAs. RSV is so heinous here, I've heard some of the displaced CAs say they'll bypass upgrade if it comes around again and stay FOs rather than deal with RSV. The negotiating committee has been told multiple times that RSV rules are a definite must on the improvement side. Same with first and second year FO pay.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
ATL Reserve April:
CA - 38 RSV / 58 LH --> 96 Total, Junior LH Seniority 370 (total approx 1300)
FO - 50 RSV / 58 LH --> 108 Total, Junior LH Seniority 989 (not including 4 CDOs)
anic:
My flight time this month is 3:32, with 1 landing logged.
ATL Reserve April:
CA - 38 RSV / 58 LH --> 96 Total, Junior LH Seniority 370 (total approx 1300)
FO - 50 RSV / 58 LH --> 108 Total, Junior LH Seniority 989 (not including 4 CDOs)
anic:My flight time this month is 3:32, with 1 landing logged.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
Sorry, I know it isn't as funny on your end of the chat but I couldn't help myself.
Woot! You must be mainline!ATL Reserve April:
CA - 38 RSV / 58 LH --> 96 Total, Junior LH Seniority 370 (total approx 1300)
FO - 50 RSV / 58 LH --> 108 Total, Junior LH Seniority 989 (not including 4 CDOs)
My flight time this month is 3:32, with 1 landing logged.
Sorry, I know it isn't as funny on your end of the chat but I couldn't help myself.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I got a good chuckle out of it though. Thanks!
I got a good chuckle out of it though. Thanks!
rd757
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
Then you have people like my age (first-year college students) in training who are willing to take the job. I am anti-union, look at what it has done to SO many industries. Steel, auto, and airlines have crapped out because of it. If you want you union to beg for money for your sorry butt, then when your airline's bank has run dry because it had to pay you 120k a year to be a first year FO, we will all laugh at you greedy Gen Y'er. I maybe from Gen Y, but I am no way entitled to anything and I understand that. After working in the service industry for more than 5 years, I hate people who feel entitled to things. That is one thing really pisses me off.
Fact of life, regional FO's get crap, but what can we do? Nothing, we want a union to fight for it, you can eat it like the auto industry $45/hr steering wheel installer.
Sure 60 minutes could bring it into the public eye, and I think pandamonium would ensue and people would realize the QOL regional pilots have. But the money just isn't there to pay anymore. Look at F9, if they had paid their pilots anymore, they wouldn't even be operating in Bankruptcy, they woud be non-existent. JetBlue is lucky that they didn't unionize, and their pilots got real smart, real quick. "If we unionize, we won't have a job in a year, lets stay how we are." Spirit is about to tank because they have ALPA fighting for higher wages. Unions are the demise of everything and I will fight to the death about it.
If you don't want the QOL and can't handle the pay, I suggest another career path because there are plenty of us preparing to take your place.
Regards,
RD
Then you have people like my age (first-year college students) in training who are willing to take the job. I am anti-union, look at what it has done to SO many industries. Steel, auto, and airlines have crapped out because of it. If you want you union to beg for money for your sorry butt, then when your airline's bank has run dry because it had to pay you 120k a year to be a first year FO, we will all laugh at you greedy Gen Y'er. I maybe from Gen Y, but I am no way entitled to anything and I understand that. After working in the service industry for more than 5 years, I hate people who feel entitled to things. That is one thing really pisses me off.
Fact of life, regional FO's get crap, but what can we do? Nothing, we want a union to fight for it, you can eat it like the auto industry $45/hr steering wheel installer.
Sure 60 minutes could bring it into the public eye, and I think pandamonium would ensue and people would realize the QOL regional pilots have. But the money just isn't there to pay anymore. Look at F9, if they had paid their pilots anymore, they wouldn't even be operating in Bankruptcy, they woud be non-existent. JetBlue is lucky that they didn't unionize, and their pilots got real smart, real quick. "If we unionize, we won't have a job in a year, lets stay how we are." Spirit is about to tank because they have ALPA fighting for higher wages. Unions are the demise of everything and I will fight to the death about it.
If you don't want the QOL and can't handle the pay, I suggest another career path because there are plenty of us preparing to take your place.
Regards,
RD
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I hate those Union how dare they try to level the playing field between management and the blue collar works who make the company money. My CEO makes more by lunch then I do in a year.
How dare they fight to make my job safer.
I hate those Union how dare they try to level the playing field between management and the blue collar works who make the company money. My CEO makes more by lunch then I do in a year.
How dare they fight to make my job safer.
PGT
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
You need to read Flying the Line. Also, I wanna hear your opinion in 7-10 years when you're with a regional.
You need to read Flying the Line. Also, I wanna hear your opinion in 7-10 years when you're with a regional.
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
Nah, I think I'll continue doing my job with a smile, but at any and every opportunity, I'm going to try to leave the profession better than I found it and the only tool I have is collective bargaining.
If I call the CEO about getting hosed by crew scheduling, he's not going to take my call. But when 12,419 of us show up at his luncheon, he's going to pay attention and ignore us at his own peril.
Nah, I think I'll continue doing my job with a smile, but at any and every opportunity, I'm going to try to leave the profession better than I found it and the only tool I have is collective bargaining.
If I call the CEO about getting hosed by crew scheduling, he's not going to take my call. But when 12,419 of us show up at his luncheon, he's going to pay attention and ignore us at his own peril.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
RPM
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
your views will change once mommy and daddy aren't footing the bill anymore. Like someone else said.. You won't be saying that in 7-10 yrs..:buck:
We've all heard this speech before countless times.. then about 6 months into the job reality strikes, SJS wears off and your views change real friggin quick. How do we know this?? Oh, just because we've seen it happen about 1000 times..
So what do YOU want out of this career? Crap QOL and 20K a year after getting out of college? The airlines are gonna LOVE you! Get real..
your views will change once mommy and daddy aren't footing the bill anymore. Like someone else said.. You won't be saying that in 7-10 yrs..:buck:
We've all heard this speech before countless times.. then about 6 months into the job reality strikes, SJS wears off and your views change real friggin quick. How do we know this?? Oh, just because we've seen it happen about 1000 times..
So what do YOU want out of this career? Crap QOL and 20K a year after getting out of college? The airlines are gonna LOVE you! Get real..
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I just want to say....WOW! Unfortunately, I don't have much time to comment on all the misguided thoughts in this post. Suffice it to say, change every single point you made in your post 180º and then you'll have it right. I HIGHLY suggest you follow PGT's advice and read Flying the Line, Vol's I & II. Then, come on back and we can have an educated debate. As it stands now, you're a mgmt. dream come true. I say this with utmost sincerity and I'm not trying to flame you.....but you seriously need more information before you can make an informed opinion on the subject.
Until then, enjoy your glass 172.
I just want to say....WOW! Unfortunately, I don't have much time to comment on all the misguided thoughts in this post. Suffice it to say, change every single point you made in your post 180º and then you'll have it right. I HIGHLY suggest you follow PGT's advice and read Flying the Line, Vol's I & II. Then, come on back and we can have an educated debate. As it stands now, you're a mgmt. dream come true. I say this with utmost sincerity and I'm not trying to flame you.....but you seriously need more information before you can make an informed opinion on the subject.
Until then, enjoy your glass 172.
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I hate to say it, but where is Velo when we need him. I woulden't call my self anti union or pro union. I'd call my self fire the guys at the union right now, they aren't helping much. If there weren't any unions to speak of, expect senior CA to make 1st year regional pay because of attitudes like this.
Get an education and some time under your belt son, them come back educated. 60 hours in a glass 172 is just that, 60 hrs in a glass 172. I think you have SJS real bad.
I hate to say it, but where is Velo when we need him. I woulden't call my self anti union or pro union. I'd call my self fire the guys at the union right now, they aren't helping much. If there weren't any unions to speak of, expect senior CA to make 1st year regional pay because of attitudes like this.
Get an education and some time under your belt son, them come back educated. 60 hours in a glass 172 is just that, 60 hrs in a glass 172. I think you have SJS real bad.
rd757
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
I'm sure I will.
Wasn't aimed at you Doug, I know you like what you do.
Everyone else, let's flame the new guy! Sound like a plan?
My opinion has been formed, and it will stay for a while, I know what I'm sinking my money into and I know what I want out of it. It's not suburb QOL or money out my butt. I'll take what I can get. I won't settle for crap, but I'm not going to pass up opportunities that may come back to haunt me if I skip out. I'm always looking for ways to get everything I want out of this career, and that's why I came to JC. If you are going to rip apart posts from new guys, then go for it.
RD
Until then, enjoy your glass 172.
I'm sure I will.
Wasn't aimed at you Doug, I know you like what you do.
Everyone else, let's flame the new guy! Sound like a plan?
My opinion has been formed, and it will stay for a while, I know what I'm sinking my money into and I know what I want out of it. It's not suburb QOL or money out my butt. I'll take what I can get. I won't settle for crap, but I'm not going to pass up opportunities that may come back to haunt me if I skip out. I'm always looking for ways to get everything I want out of this career, and that's why I came to JC. If you are going to rip apart posts from new guys, then go for it.
RD
PGT
Well-Known Member
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's
:banghead: I'm a year or two older than you, I'm telling you to read up JC and recognize the condition OUR industry is in and try to make it better when you get there...as many on here have done.
We sure do.
:banghead: I'm a year or two older than you, I'm telling you to read up JC and recognize the condition OUR industry is in and try to make it better when you get there...as many on here have done.
We sure do.