Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's?

[ThatOtherDude]

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at Colgan and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.
So...
The US Government has made it illegal for us to strike via the Railway Labor Act of 1926 amended in 1936 to also apply to the Airlines and the wages are still about the same as back then.

We have ALPA now, which is great for job protection and I'm glad we do but what are they are going to do for wages and how long is it going to take?
Probably a very long time and when it happens I'm sure it won't be anything to brag about because union or no union, we can't strike. :banghead:

So what do we do now? Just go to work everyday and keep hoping things change on their own? Because they're not. And if there's something we can do, what is it? Quit and go do something else after spending all this time, effort and money on training? I'm all open for bright ideas.

I'm with Sully when he said something about not wanting his kids coming into the industry. It's horrible. Most mainline FA's make more than I and nothing against them but they don't have a fifth of the investment, training or responsibility we do.

So anyway, sorry for the long rant but it's been a sad month and I needed to do that.

 

[NickH]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Why would you take the job knowing it was that bad?

They can and will continue to pay dismal wages while people who should know better can't wait to work for them.

 

[Baronman]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Sure there is a light, but it still may be at least a year before we start seeing movement again.

It's the ebb and flow of the airlines. I was a CFI when the last "stop" happened. I stuck it out during those years 2001-2004 and eventually when things got moving again I was hired at my first choice. Many of my comrades dropped out of the race only to kick themselves years later.

So...I guess it comes down to how much fortitude you have. Can you stick it out or not? If you do I'm sure you'll move upstream to the next stop, and maybe another step or two before things come to another stop.

BUT....My suggestion to all those looking at potential jobs. Pick a place you wouldn't mind being "stopped" at. Sure some places may hire you with lower time, or may seem to upgrade faster. Things change significantly and you should definitely consider what company you'd want to be at if things were to slow down and stop.

I'm sure things will improve with a contract at Colgan, but for now you'll have to deal with your decision to go there. And yes, most mainline FAs make good coin. I know plenty at CAL that are up in the $40s/hr and one even at my rate in the $60s/hr. I'm sure the majority are 20-30//hr though.

What about taking a leave of absence? Go back to school, find another job (easier said than done nowadays). Good luck.

 

[MQAAord]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Most mainline FA's make more than I and nothing against them but they don't have a fifth of the investment, training or responsibility we do.

Most mainline F/As have been at their carriers a helluva lot longer than you've been a yours The ones making decent change have many years invested in their airline.

First year pay for me at AA was about $21/hr, this was in 2001 before the paycuts.

 

[USMC-SSGT]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Thats is why you never go to an airline based on something that is not concrete.

At colgan the upgrades are not concrete, the payscale is for at least last year and the next few.

When I came here I was looking at a 10-12 month upgrade because that is where it was for those that had the time but I also knew the pay scale. A few months after I came upgrades stopped. It happens. Ive got apps out there for other non 121 flying gigs but im sitting tight unless something comes up. The upgrades will be back in a year or so at Colgan.

 

[surreal1221]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Light?

Nope.

 

[derg]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Thats is why you never go to an airline based on something that is not concrete.

I wonder who kept harping on why upgrade times are irrelevant....

 

[bafanguy]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Thats is why you never go to an airline based on something that is not concrete.

At colgan the upgrades are not concrete, ....

How would one identify a concrete upgrade opportunity prior to taking a particular job ?

I can't think of anything concrete at an airline except at least one furlough.:laff:

 

[ThatOtherDude]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Why would you take the job knowing it was that bad?

They can and will continue to pay dismal wages while people who should know better can't wait to work for them.

So you're saying it's the pilots fault?

 

[Firebird2XC]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I wonder who kept harping on why upgrade times are irrelevant....

:yar:

 

[v1valarob]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at ....... and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.

At least you know when the chance of upgrading is going to happen. Most others dont. We are the only airline with growth on the horizon, while most are looking at cuts. We are one of the only airlines without furloughs or downgrades currently.

2010 looks pretty good for see jay see. Im guessing we will have to hire somewhere around 200 pilots next year, so that makes those of us willing to stick it out, in a pretty good spot.

I know alot of guys feel the way you do. I feel the same way all the time. The fact that my seniority went down 9 spots in just over a month proves it.

 

[dbrault17]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

So what do we do now? Just go to work everyday and keep hoping things change on their own? Because they're not. And if there's something we can do, what is it? Quit and go do something else after spending all this time, effort and money on training? I'm all open for bright ideas.

:yeahthat:

Ask yourself, What incentive is there for someone to pay you an ever increasing wage? If you cant come up with a good reason for managment to pay an ever increasing wage, protect work rules, and not farm out your work then its proly time to reconsider other career plans. Wages in the airline industry are not what they are today from overnight consessions. The slide has been happening for decades and will continue to for the future. There is no reason it wont change. If you really enjoy being a pilot and can live with the mediocre pay scales than you may (or may not) enjoy the career. If you are concerned about money, maybe you should really take a gut check.

20k a year is pitiful and disgraceful (not picking on you just the state of the industry). It used to be that you could justify those earnings because you could recoup that money lost later in your career. Im not so confident that will happen. Consider the opportunity cost at throwing years and years at this career making poverty leval wages with no real end in site. Ive been in the game for six years and only passed 30k on one W2. My best friend who freakin paints houses for a living charges 60/an hour (regional jet captains pay) and gets way more than 75 hour monthly garantee (and get this, he spends more time at home than a regional rat lol).

There are some who really enjoy this career but I believe its really just a crap shoot. Id rather have a skill set thats not chartered out to the lowest bidder.

 

[surreal1221]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

It'd be nice if the training we all paid for was even remotely close to being what it was worth.

Paying 60k worth in training, when in reality it's not even worth 15k.

Just a thought.

 

[aloft]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at Colgan and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.

From the sounds of it, you're in your 2nd year at Colgan, correct? What exactly did you expect, that you'd be flying 777s at Delta by now?

Sorry, but I'm getting a whiff of Generation Y entitlement whining off your post.

 

[dbrault17]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

It'd be nice if the training we all paid for was even remotely close to being what it was worth.

Paying 60k worth in training, when in reality it's not even worth 15k.

Just a thought.

Right on the freakin head.


Taken from another site....

Well I used to make $120K a year, and now I'm about to make less then $20K a year banner towing!

My buddy was a G-550 captain, and now he is hoping to make $50K a year flying a Metro.

My other buddy has 5 type ratings (4 corporate and an A320), and he hasn't flown since the end end Oct.

I know every other sector of the economy is taking hits like this, but will the losses we take as pilots this round catch up after (if) the economy rebounds? If it does why? What factor will make a pro pilots pay increase?

 

[dbrault17]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

From the sounds of it, you're in your 2nd year at Colgan, correct? What exactly did you expect, that you'd be flying 777s at Delta by now?

Sorry, but I'm getting a whiff of Generation Y entitlement whining off your post.

You're right. I didnt fully research the facts before signing on the dotted line for flight school. I blindly listened to Gen X about working hard, get good grades, go to college and get a good job. That was my fault and Ill take responsiblity.

Now Im a tad bit smarter and know how f'ed up things are in this world because of Gen X. Thanks.

 

[ChrisH]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you guys honestly feel that way, regarding this career, and pay, and how things will just continue to spiral downward, why not leave the industry, and go into another career?

Flying is one of those passions, where you don't have to make it a career, to still fulfull it as passion. Some say they don't want to leave, because they have invested too much into the career. If you will make more money, in another career, won't you make up for that investment, quicker, than staying in flying? You can still utilize that training to fly, in your own airplane, for fun, and/or, flight instruct, part-time, to earn a little extra money, and also still enjoy flying.

 

[dbrault17]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you guys honestly feel that way, regarding this career, and pay, and how things will just continue to spiral downward, why not leave the industry, and go into another career?

Flying is one of those passions, where you don't have to make it a career, to still fulfull it as passion. Some say they don't want to leave, because they have invested too much into the career. If you will make more money, in another career, won't you make up for that investment, quicker, than staying in flying? You can still utilize that training to fly, in your own airplane, for fun, and/or, flight instruct, part-time, to earn a little extra money, and also still enjoy flying.

Trying to get out. Its not easy while handing over unemployment checks to student loans but Im back in school starting this summer (with government money). I dont know what just yet but its a start. One less pilot that will be competing for those crappy jobs in the years to come. Thank me later.

 

[bafanguy]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Trying to get out. Its not easy while handing over unemployment checks to student loans but Im back in school starting this summer (with government money). I dont know what just yet but its a start.

dbrault17,

Sounds as if you've made a good decision for yourself. The younger you are, the easier the retooling. Good luck.

 

[inside0ut]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at Colgan and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.
So...
The US Government has made it illegal for us to strike via the Railway Labor Act of 1926 amended in 1936 to also apply to the Airlines and the wages are still about the same as back then.

We have ALPA now, which is great for job protection and I'm glad we do but what are they are going to do for wages and how long is it going to take?
Probably a very long time and when it happens I'm sure it won't be anything to brag about because union or no union, we can't strike. :banghead:

So what do we do now? Just go to work everyday and keep hoping things change on their own? Because they're not. And if there's something we can do, what is it? Quit and go do something else after spending all this time, effort and money on training? I'm all open for bright ideas.

I'm with Sully when he said something about not wanting his kids coming into the industry. It's horrible. Most mainline FA's make more than I and nothing against them but they don't have a fifth of the investment, training or responsibility we do.

So anyway, sorry for the long rant but it's been a sad month and I needed to do that.

Man, if you came into this industry for the money and a quick upgrade, you came in for the wrong reason.



I think I came in for the right reason-

All the hott flight attendants.