I'm 43 years old and have always wanted to fly. Sadly, I have spent most of my working years in the business world. I lost my job at a .com three years ago and have run out of money. I had been living off of my 401K. Does anyone know how someone in my position could get financial aid to learn to fly.
I'm considering flying
- Thread starter Matt1162
- Start date
I do have a 4 year degree in geology but the only geology work experience I have was an internship. I don't have any ratings or certifications. Ultimately I'd like to just make a living being in the cockpit, whether it's a large passenger plane or small plane. I don't mind being a co-pilot either.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
After 43 years, why aviation? Have you given it any thought through the years? Is there a yearning somewhere to go fly? Or did you hear how much pilots can make and thought, "I can do that."
The reason I ask is that it's a long, hard road in the beginning. There will be dark days and frustrating setbacks. The thing that gets you through those is a need to fly. It's an itch that needs to be scratched, regardless. Whether the end result is just being a weekend bug smasher or in the left seat of a 777 for Conglobomega Air Lines, the innate driving force was a love of aviation.
The reason I ask is that it's a long, hard road in the beginning. There will be dark days and frustrating setbacks. The thing that gets you through those is a need to fly. It's an itch that needs to be scratched, regardless. Whether the end result is just being a weekend bug smasher or in the left seat of a 777 for Conglobomega Air Lines, the innate driving force was a love of aviation.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
So I'm gonna be 42 at the end of the month. I am not telling you that you cannot do this - you absolutely can, and guys considerably older than both of us have done so.
I would encourage you to take the two decades you've got of adult life experience and weigh the decision accordingly. As a disclaimer - I have not yet decided what I want to do with aviation, and I've just recently broken 250 hours of total time in my logbook. It's often a question of resources more than anything else, and it sounds like you're a bit thin on them right now.
Financial aid is out there, and there's even a stronger case for it than there was 7 years ago because it's a lot cheaper to buy the money than it used to be. However, it's going to be tough to get one of these loans without demonstrating a capacity for paying it back. You're conservatively looking at about $45-50K to get to some flavor of Commercial license - could be done for a little less, could be done for a lot more - a lot depends on you, where you are, and what opportunities there are.
But debt can be a dreamkiller. And you're already taking a double-hit on living on your 401k - because you're losing that retirement money and taking the 10% penalty hit on it plus the taxes. From where I stand, that's a form of bleeding and you need to stop that with a job - any job - before you pursue something as expensive as flying. End of lecture on that.
Given your situation - I would suggest you FIRST see if you can hold at least a 3rd class medical - which should be relatively easy. If you can, then look at something like a mom and pop flying school or a local flying club and earn your Private Certificate. Get a sense of being in the air and decide if it's something you REALLY want to do. If it is, then move forward. If not, then you have had a great experience and now have a unique hobby that will show you things the ground-borne will never really appreciate.
Good luck. This website is a terrific resource itself. Ask questions in good faith.
I would encourage you to take the two decades you've got of adult life experience and weigh the decision accordingly. As a disclaimer - I have not yet decided what I want to do with aviation, and I've just recently broken 250 hours of total time in my logbook. It's often a question of resources more than anything else, and it sounds like you're a bit thin on them right now.
Financial aid is out there, and there's even a stronger case for it than there was 7 years ago because it's a lot cheaper to buy the money than it used to be. However, it's going to be tough to get one of these loans without demonstrating a capacity for paying it back. You're conservatively looking at about $45-50K to get to some flavor of Commercial license - could be done for a little less, could be done for a lot more - a lot depends on you, where you are, and what opportunities there are.
But debt can be a dreamkiller. And you're already taking a double-hit on living on your 401k - because you're losing that retirement money and taking the 10% penalty hit on it plus the taxes. From where I stand, that's a form of bleeding and you need to stop that with a job - any job - before you pursue something as expensive as flying. End of lecture on that.
Given your situation - I would suggest you FIRST see if you can hold at least a 3rd class medical - which should be relatively easy. If you can, then look at something like a mom and pop flying school or a local flying club and earn your Private Certificate. Get a sense of being in the air and decide if it's something you REALLY want to do. If it is, then move forward. If not, then you have had a great experience and now have a unique hobby that will show you things the ground-borne will never really appreciate.
Good luck. This website is a terrific resource itself. Ask questions in good faith.
Only thing I would change, is See if you can hold a First class medical. No sense spending the dollars if something would prevent you from using it.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Well, it really depends on his goals, right? I mean, he doesn't need a first class for every flying job out there. That's why I suggested a 3rd class - he can use that to get all the Private stuff done, and by then he'll know if he needs a 1st or 2nd for what he needs/wants to do.
But the cost difference is so minor, since he is below EKG age. My AME charges the same no matter what.
Best to know up front what the possibilities are. I mean if he has his heart set on 121, might want to know before you start.
Then again, life brings fun and could still change down the road. Hell I drink four pots of coffee a day and still pass the BP and EKG
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Okay - question - this is where I need some education.
Let's say you apply for a first class, and the result is that you're denied for a first. Can you get a second if you meet THAT criteria? Or are you screwed?
If you can still get a Second while being denied a First, then I completely agree with you both about applying for a First. I may have an incorrect understanding of how that works - would love to know the answer since, age-wise, I'm in the same boat.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
AFAIK yes. If you meet the criteria for a second, but not a first, you can still be issued a second. The thing is, almost every employer is going to require a first class as a prerequisite for hiring. There are those that won't, but why limit your potential pool of jobs right out of the gate?Okay - question - this is where I need some education.
Let's say you apply for a first class, and the result is that you're denied for a first. Can you get a second if you meet THAT criteria? Or are you screwed?
If you can still get a Second while being denied a First, then I completely agree with you both about applying for a First. I may have an incorrect understanding of how that works - would love to know the answer since, age-wise, I'm in the same boat.
.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I don't disagree. Clearly, my misunderstanding of the way the medical rules work affected my opinion.
Jordan93
Well-Known Member
This may sound like a dumb question but have you taken an intro flight to see if this is actually something you want to pursue? I also agree with getting your medical before you pour any money into this. Get a consultation with an AME first. DO NOT schedule your medical unless you are 110% sure he'll issue you a first class medical.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
The advice is all going to seem very Debbie Downer but it pays to be realistic:
I started learning to fly in 2001. 6 years later I had a regional job (old flight time rules). I spent 7 years at that job and my peak earning before bankruptcy as a mid-senior FO was $50,000. I never held upgrade. Year 7 flying professionally I found a job that would pay 6 figures right seat.
At Minimum Monthly Guarantee (the number all life decisions SHOULD be based on at the airlines), I will break $100,000 at year 11. If I can credit 83 1/3 hours per month a year, I can get $100,000 at year 4.
Assumptions made: won't leave my current aircraft and won't upgrade. You have to be comfortable in what you are assigned or bid because you could be stuck with it.
To recap: best case scenario for ME for day 1 flight training to $100,000 income in a year is 17 years. Worst case is 24 years.
I started learning to fly in 2001. 6 years later I had a regional job (old flight time rules). I spent 7 years at that job and my peak earning before bankruptcy as a mid-senior FO was $50,000. I never held upgrade. Year 7 flying professionally I found a job that would pay 6 figures right seat.
At Minimum Monthly Guarantee (the number all life decisions SHOULD be based on at the airlines), I will break $100,000 at year 11. If I can credit 83 1/3 hours per month a year, I can get $100,000 at year 4.
Assumptions made: won't leave my current aircraft and won't upgrade. You have to be comfortable in what you are assigned or bid because you could be stuck with it.
To recap: best case scenario for ME for day 1 flight training to $100,000 income in a year is 17 years. Worst case is 24 years.
awbmof
Well-Known Member
I would also add that you are looking at an average of 9 years from zero hours to ATP marketable (according to one of our local DPEs), it could be less depending upon how much you power through.
Not sure where he's getting his data, but Zero to CFI in a year if you're dedicated, then maybe 18 months at one of the high volume schools and you're at 1500.
Now if you were on my old plan it was 0-100, sit 9 years, 100-300, continue to ponder the income loss
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Not sure where he's getting his data, but Zero to CFI in a year if you're dedicated, then maybe 18 months at one of the high volume schools and you're at 1500.
Now if you were on my old plan it was 0-100, sit 9 years, 100-300, continue to ponder the income loss
With the exception of the all the rugrats, you and I are living strikingly parallel lives....
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Not sure where he's getting his data, but Zero to CFI in a year if you're dedicated, then maybe 18 months at one of the high volume schools and you're at 1500.
Now if you were on my old plan it was 0-100, sit 9 years, 100-300, continue to ponder the income loss
I said worst case
I did my ratings in 4.5 years attending college. So if you can cut that down to 2 years including 1500 hours you've only got 15 years to $100,000.
Yeah not aimed at your comment. Was at the "DPE says 9 years to ATP" comment.I said worst case
I did my ratings in 4.5 years attending college. So if you can cut that down to 2 years including 1500 hours you've only got 15 years to $100,000.
Similar threads
