Ice Ice Baby

[BobDDuck]

Don't forget the couple of Challengers that have gone down due to ice. Actually, with that aircraft I think the real problem was not going down, but not going up. Not going up followed by going off the end of the runway at 150 knots.

Something to keep in mind during those Challenger accidents... In both cases, the airframe was NOT deiced prior to departure despite there being frozen precip falling at the time. In both cases the wing anti ice was NOT used for take off despite it being required. And in both cases the pitch rotation was well in excess of the recommended 3 degrees per second. In one case it was as high as 7 degrees per second.

Operating in icing had nothing to do with what happened in both this crashes. And now, because of those (plus one in Europe) two accidents, all CRJ operators have to follow ridiculous procedures during cold weather operations.

 

[Polar742]

One of the things that has scared me most flying airplanes happened arriving into ORD.

I was flying a new EJet. We were going out over the lake to land on what is now known as 28. It was winter and snowing. We encountered light to moderate rime ice.

The ice detection system flipped on the wing heat. Then I got a WING FAIL message. I'm on downwind picking up severe ice (since I can't take it off now) and it was accumlating at a rapid rate. It was my leg, my FO had just come off Senecas, and this was one of his first times in the ice. We told approach we lost our icing capabilities, they turned us in just past the shoreline. We got on the ground safely, but the consequences that could have happened creeped me out for awhile.

 

[roundout]

Something to keep in mind during those Challenger accidents... In both cases, the airframe was NOT deiced prior to departure despite there being frozen precip falling at the time. In both cases the wing anti ice was NOT used for take off despite it being required. And in both cases the pitch rotation was well in excess of the recommended 3 degrees per second. In one case it was as high as 7 degrees per second.

Operating in icing had nothing to do with what happened in both this crashes. And now, because of those (plus one in Europe) two accidents, all CRJ operators have to follow ridiculous procedures during cold weather operations.

I partially disagree. I think that operating the Challenger and CRJ in icing exemplify the point we're trying to make in this thread. Even if you have bleed air anti-ice and are fully certified for known icing, you still must respect ice and not make foolish choices. That's the point of the thread. See the comments about anti-ice being for escaping ice, not cruising along in icing for hours at a time. Poor pilot technique and poor decisions only exacerbate the problems that ice present.