CrewPASS -- on its way?

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
I got a blastmail saying that TSA is going to be piloting a CrewPASS (esque) program at several airports. Anyone have any more info (that isn't SSI) about when the entire program will be rolled out?

The only thing I noticed was it said it was using CASS as a security layer so that means our flight attendant girls and boys won't be able to use it which I don't think is fair, but progress is slow I guess?
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
ALPA worked danged hard to make this happen. One of the last things that Duane Woerth accomplished before leaving office. The pilot program is supposed to last for a set period of time (6-12 months, I think), and then it will go country-wide if there are no major problems. Only available to airlines with CASS, obviously.

The AFA is complaining about the program and not being cooperative at all, so I wouldn't expect the FAs to be given access at any point in time unless airline management pushes it for them.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
AFA

The AFA is complaining about the program and not being cooperative at all, so I wouldn't expect the FAs to be given access at any point in time unless airline management pushes it for them.
I could not believe some of the things I read from the leaders of AFA.

Also, I doubt they are speaking for the majority of their members since I cannot think of one single flight attendant that I have flown with who wants to continue to go through the useless airport security at the start of each workday.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Re: AFA

I could not believe some of the things I read from the leaders of AFA.

Also, I doubt they are speaking for the majority of their members since I cannot think of one single flight attendant that I have flown with who wants to continue to go through the useless airport security at the start of each workday.
It's just bad politics. They're mad because the program was set up to use the CASS system as the verifying agent, and they aren't part of CASS. So, instead of being proactive and trying to get into CASS, they've decided to be vindictive and try to keep us from getting CrewPass also by citing reasons of "security concerns."

Despite this, I'm still a big fan of the AFA. They're good members of the AFL-CIO, and they have generally done a very good job of representing their members. They've just made a bone-headed decision on how to handle this issue.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
I see no problem with utilizing the same system to verify their employment. They obviously shouldn't get access to the cockpit jumpseat, if that's what you're asking.
You know better then I that once you crack open the door it's very easy to swing it wide open. I rather see a entirely different computer system for crew members and keep CASS to exactly what it's namesake suggests. But I'm not a member of ALPA so I have little say in the matter. Oh wells maybe someday.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
You know better then I that once you crack open the door it's very easy to swing it wide open.
I don't really understand your concern. Are you concerned that we'll be forced to accept FA jumpseaters on the cockpit jumpseat? I don't really see that as a real concern, because we aren't required to accept pilots in CASS on the jumpseat, either. It's always up to the Captain. We own the jumpseat.

I rather see a entirely different computer system for crew members and keep CASS to exactly what it's namesake suggests.
Duane was only able to sell this program to the TSA because of the use of already-in-use computer infrastructure that would not increase costs to the government or to the airlines. The TSA was unwilling to discuss any additional costs to make this happen. If he hadn't offered the use of CASS, then CrewPass would not exist.
 

Screaming_Emu

Joe Conventional
I don't really understand your concern. Are you concerned that we'll be forced to accept FA jumpseaters on the cockpit jumpseat? I don't really see that as a real concern, because we aren't required to accept pilots in CASS on the jumpseat, either. It's always up to the Captain. We own the jumpseat.
While I see what you're saying, and agree with you...not everyone thinks the way you do believe it or not.

I agree with Mike...slippery slope and all that.
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
So, I heard that CrewPass is really just a separate line for crews to use, but they still have to undergo the exact same security, it's just in a separate line. Is that true?
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
So, I heard that CrewPass is really just a separate line for crews to use, but they still have to undergo the exact same security, it's just in a separate line. Is that true?
Not true. CrewPass allows crews to bypass security just as the FFDOs currently do. You would go to the exit lane where the FFDOs go now, and there would be a TSA rep there to check the CASS system for you. If you check out, then you bypass. This is why the AFA is using the "security concerns" excuse to oppose the system.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
One of the things you need to jumpseat is an FAA certificate and be employed as a pilot/mechanic/dispatcher. FA's do not qualify, even if they have the "certificate."
I don't know about that one. The way I read 121.547 they would be allowed.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
I don't know about that one. The way I read 121.547 they would be allowed.
They can be admitted to the flight deck because someone has to check the peep-hole and open the door while the remaining pilot is strapped in.

I don't think the rule intends for them to be carried in the cockpit the entire flight.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I don't know about that one. The way I read 121.547 they would be allowed.
The FARs don't have much to do with this. OpSpecs, while they aren't controlling place limitations on who can ride up front that further limit what ever the FARs say. For us that list includes CASS verified pilots and dispatchers and mechanics performing flight critical duties as well as FAA guys and the occasions DOD or Secret Service official. That's it, unless they have written permission from the DO and CEO.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
That would be one strange interpretation.
Sec. 121.547 - Admission to flight deck.
(a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is --
(1) A crewmember;
(2) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, who is performing official duties;
(3) Any person who --
(i) Has permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder, and the Administrator; and
(ii) Is an employee of --
(A) The United States, or
(B) A part 119 certificate holder and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation; or
(C) An aeronautical enterprise certificated by the Administrator and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation.
(4) Any person who has the permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder and the Administrator. Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not limit the emergency authority of the pilot in command to exclude any person from the flightdeck in the interests of safety.
(b) For the purposes of paragraph (a)(3) of this section, employees of the United States who deal responsibly with matters relating to safety and employees of the certificate holder whose efficiency would be increased by familiarity with flight conditions, may be admitted by the certificate holder. However, the certificate holder may not admit employees of traffic, sales, or other departments that are not directly related to flight operations, unless they are eligible under paragraph (a)(4) of this section.
(c) No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except --
(1) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or authorized representative of the Administrator or National Transportation Safety Board who is checking or observing flight operations;
(2) An air traffic controller who is authorized by the Administrator to observe ATC procedures;
(3) A certificated airman employed by the certificate holder whose duties require an airman certificate;
(4) A certificated airman employed by another part 119 certificate holder whose duties with that part 119 certificate holder require an airman certificate and who is authorized by the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft to make specific trips over a route;
(5) An employee of the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft whose duty is directly related to the conduct or planning of flight operations or the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by a responsible supervisor, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority; and
(6) A technical representative of the manufacturer of the aircraft or its components whose duties are directly related to the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by the Administrator and by a responsible supervisor of the operations department of the part 119 certificate holder, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority.


Doesn't a FA meet all those criteria? I'm not 100% as I'm not a FA or deal with them on a daily basis.

Op Specs are obviously different. And PIC is the final authority.
 
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