Crash in N.C.

Yeah, I just read an article about it...Witnesses talk about "nose dropping and plane spinning etc...."

Is ATP one of these schools that puts an instructor in the back seat and two up front so everyone and their cousin can log PIC? I ask because of the three people on board....
No, and dogs are not typically enrolled as students, either.

Let them rest in peace, learn the lessons from where they made their mistakes, don't repeat those mistakes yourself, and move on.

Jedi Nein
Sad to hear that. My condolences to the families and friends.

I did notice how that news site mixed up ATPinc (School) with ATP certificate...

It doesn't sound like it was a training flight, 3 people and dog, and unknown destination? Aren't all of ATP's scheduled training flights filed IFR?
I am stunned.

The tail number of the aircraft I got my MEI training was N578TP, and in those pictures it seemed to be that same plane. Any one here knows the tail number for a fact? That is terrible news. That plane was strong, and even though a 1979 model, it had all the avionics of the new seminoles. By the looks of the crash it seems it dropped on a flat spin, which is not hard to get into in a seminole at speeds below Vmc.

My prayers and thoughts go to the families of those guys and gals.
That's the plane difete.

I have a zoomed in picture, and the tail number is *blurry* 78TP the *blurry* most looks like a 5. I was looking around at other pictures to see if they had the rest of the tailnumber, but I think you just got it.

It is definately terrible news, and a little surreal.. Eventhough I haven't flown at ATP yet I am planning to this year, just a bit strange.
Last weekend was a bad weekend for flying... 7 fatal accidents killing at least 4 people in 2 of those accidents. Yes, dogs ARE people, just ask mine.

Jedi Nein

Regis#: 578TP Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole, Turbo Seminole
Date: 06/08/2003 Time: 1654

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

City: ROCKY MOUNT State: NC Country: US


INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 3
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 2 Fat: 2 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: KWRI 081653Z 19007 45M-RA BR FEW 007 SCT028 BKN037 24/24

Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: General Aviation

Departed: RALEIGH-DURHAM, NC Dep Date: 06/08/2003 Dep. Time: 1654
Destination: ROCKY MOUNT, NC Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: Y
Last Clearance:

FAA FSDO: WINSTON-SALEM, NC (SO05) Entry date: 06/09/2003
Jedi Nein,

Thanks for the great lesson plans you have in your website. I wondered if you did not mind that I posted them in my website for my students to check on, giving you proper credit off course.

What amazes me is that I have a crashed plane with fatalities in my logbook.

Jedi Nein where are you at? and are you instructing somewhere?
"What amazes me is that I have a crashed plane with fatalities in my logbook. "

Well atleast you wern't in the plane... That would have been an interesting log entry.
Anyone over at ATP training right now skittish about flying with them? Tragedy does happen in this industry, but you hope that it wasn't because of a maintenance related issue...
Don't like to speculate (well I do), but it's so hard, there isn't even a preliminary at the ntsb yet.
Don't like to speculate (well I do), but it's so hard, there isn't even a preliminary at the ntsb yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's anything wrong with pilots trying to determine what caused a crash. A few people think everyone should just shut up and act like they aren't curious as to what happened. Pilots are morbidly curious like everyone else(i.e. people slowing down as they pass a traffic accident). I'm sure everyone has thought about what might have happened, regardless of if they have written about it.

My question to any ATP guys is what min altitudes do/did you practice different maneuvers involving engine failures (VMC Demo, Engine loss during takeoff, etc)? Is there a set guideline that everyone uses? The PTS is there of course, but maybe ATP is more restrictive and uses higher altitudes for certain maneuvers. I've got the ATP supp somewhere, but I don't know if its published in there or not.
I didn't say it was wrong, I just don't like to go on and on about it, some people can take speculation too far.

Most likely it was pilot error, atleast, that's what the NTSB will say.. Vmc roll into the cow pasture..
"What amazes me is that I have a crashed plane with fatalities in my logbook. "

Ive got two aircraft in my logbook that no longer fly. The first aircraft crashed as I was on my way to the airport to fly it. The second looks like this in my logbook.

I have a logbook entry that goes something like... 7/2/02 * PA28RT201 * N8143B * M84 * ---------------------------------------------------------------------

I was actually a back seat passenger at the time (had been flying about 5 minutes before) but stuck it in my logbook for memmories. Unfortunatly my instructor will never be able to sign that logbook entry or the actual flight I flew before that. Consider yourserlf lucky!