Captain Positions Offered to New Hires

[JordanD]

What has that "work" done to legitimately make the student a better person, or to benefit humanity? Modern coursework that lacks the aforementioned rigor is strictly knowledge banking, and submitting to it is merely demonstrating compliance. And the students aren't doing it to learn, they're doing it to check a box. The institutions don't care about the knowledge imparted—they, too, are checking boxes.

I used to think this way until I got my degree. I feel like I took a lot away from it in terms of learning how to source things, think more critically, and gather thoughts and figure out how to get points across better. Something that’s obviously pretty severely lacking in society today. Maybe it’s a case of getting out what you put in. Or maybe coincidence that I started getting more calls after I checked the box on the app, or that it became a topic of conservation in more than one interview that (I don’t have an aviation degree)

 

[scooter2525]

I’d offer the anecdote that there’s a certain major I had an app in with for 7+ years, reviewed, updated, and never heard so much of a peep from them, yet I’ve heard of people getting CJOs there with incomplete apps. Sometimes it happens.

Who got onto family airlines?

 

[JordanD]

Who got onto family airlines?

Dr. Phil

 

[Roger Roger]

Dr. Phil

Dom Toretto?

 

[DE727UPS]

Probably because every 135 charter has tried hiring retired airline guys and found that they have trouble keeping up with the insanity of the operation, and after a career of having flight planning, catering, fueling, deicing, lavs, hotels, ground transportation etc arranged for them don’t adapt well to the 135 environment….

I guess I get what you're saying after spending 31 years at UPS. But, in my own defense, my career progression was CFI, fish spotting, 135 scenic tours, 135 cargo, 121 supplemental, UPS, 135 fire suppression. I think anyone who worked their way up old skool could handle the insanity if properly motivated. Welcome to a 121 major. You'll find the insanity never ends. It's just different.

 

[///AMG]

This is the exact example of what I am not and refuse to be.

Let me say that I am not going to pretend to lecture you on airline hiring. For obvious reasons. First of which being you have been a 121 pilot, if not a 121 CA, longer than I have even had the idea in my head of wanting to do this airline thing for a living. With that out of the way, I just have a minor suggestion, which you have potentially considered already.

These people are airline management. They are HR people. Half of the people at the table or more, haven't flown an airplane in their lives. They don't care if you are telling the truth about some flying exploit or not. Unfortunately the system isn't, in this day and age, geared towards judging airmanship or a candidate's history thereof. What it is geared towards, as you certainly well know by now, is determining if you check enough of their boxes. I'm sure the boxes vary, but are still largely the same wherever you go. Something that you are saying is not what they are wanting to hear. This isn't the hill you want to die on, whatever it is. You want to make the bigger bucks, fly for a great destination airline, and retire comfortably (well, I can't speak for you, but that's what I want). You want to make it through the gatekeepers, so that you can be an awesome CA in a few years, and actually apply your decades of experience and expertise. The things that make you worth the money they will pay you. The reason young FO's will appreciate flying with you. Regardless of the throwaway day or 2 days you might spend in the interview, that mean absolutely nothing about you, or your values, or your worth. Tell the flying stories that are truthful. Be yourself, as it sounds like you are. But whether you think so or not, none of us can be 100% completely ourselves in that setting. Even us boring white cis guys. I don't have a flat top though. If I needed one of those for an interview, I'd go somewhere else

Just a couple thoughts. Don't give up. That is how they win.

 

[Roger Roger]

I guess I get what you're saying after spending 31 years at UPS. But, in my own defense, my career progression was CFI, fish spotting, 135 scenic tours, 135 cargo, 121 supplemental, UPS, 135 fire suppression. I think anyone who worked their way up old skool could handle the insanity if properly motivated. Welcome to a 121 major. You'll find the insanity never ends. It's just different.

That’s fair and it’s definitely a generalization. There is also, to be frank, a physical element to it as well and the 65+ year old dudes often don’t withstand the schedule as well either.

 

[///AMG]

Let me say that I am not going to pretend to lecture you on airline hiring. For obvious reasons. First of which being you have been a 121 pilot, if not a 121 CA, longer than I have even had the idea in my head of wanting to do this airline thing for a living. With that out of the way, I just have a minor suggestion, which you have potentially considered already.

These people are airline management. They are HR people. Half of the people at the table or more, haven't flown an airplane in their lives. They don't care if you are telling the truth about some flying exploit or not. Unfortunately the system isn't, in this day and age, geared towards judging airmanship or a candidate's history thereof. What it is geared towards, as you certainly well know by now, is determining if you check enough of their boxes. I'm sure the boxes vary, but are still largely the same wherever you go. Something that you are saying is not what they are wanting to hear. This isn't the hill you want to die on, whatever it is. You want to make the bigger bucks, fly for a great destination airline, and retire comfortably (well, I can't speak for you, but that's what I want). You want to make it through the gatekeepers, so that you can be an awesome CA in a few years, and actually apply your decades of experience and expertise. The things that make you worth the money they will pay you. The reason young FO's will appreciate flying with you. Regardless of the throwaway day or 2 days you might spend in the interview, that mean absolutely nothing about you, or your values, or your worth. Tell the flying stories that are truthful. Be yourself, as it sounds like you are. But whether you think so or not, none of us can be 100% completely ourselves in that setting. Even us boring white cis guys. I don't have a flat top though. If I needed one of those for an interview, I'd go somewhere else

Just a couple thoughts. Don't give up. That is how they win.

And fox, just in case that came off as still being preachy, or whatever-splaining, in spite of my disclaimer, I'll readily admit that I forgot to bid for next month. Someone out there got a **** line who would have been on reserve. Which was my early Christmas present to them. But seriously, don't give up.

 

[phill1174]

A long time ago I looked up the interview gouge and it included questions like “look at this electrical circuit and describe the resistance.” And I knew I was too stupid to work there.

Much hasn’t changed when we were hiring. This was probably the hardest interview I had, and it was after they got rid of the sim portion. Ironically I’ve had easier interviews where I didn’t get hired. I just add it to the list of things that make me scratch my head.

 

[DE727UPS]

Did you get to be a package car helper for a day in indoc? Heard they quit doing that.

 

[killbilly]

@Roger Roger ’s post 105 on this thread is what I wanted to say so I’m just gonna re-mention it here.

 

[phill1174]

Did you get to be a package car helper for a day in indoc? Heard they quit doing that.

Our class didn’t do it since we were still navigating COVID. I think they started back in 2022. I heard it was a cool experience.

 

[CFI A&P]

Yes, was a FAC, but your comment would be right for the vast bulk of the brethren in blue. I like your counterbattery fire, good sir! Your rounds are on target!

View attachment 74814

A little late to this, but this fits right in.

 

[JDean3204]

JSYK, I interviewed at AS in 2021, and WN twice this year (and I'm done trying with the latter.)

I've had apps in at UA and DL for six+ years.

A> Nobody requires degrees at this point.

B> If I'd started a legit degree program from a legit university, I'd problably still be slogging my way through it right now, at best, assuming I hadn't had to drop out due to lack of time, and:
B2> If I'd just bought a degree from a diploma mill like a lot of folks to "ChEcK ThE BoX," I would have sacrificed my integrity to do it.

C> Yes, I did do interview prep for the last two interviews, yes, I've done CP M&Gs. I have a bunch of honest, heart-felt letters of recommendation from people that I've actually flown with, who actually had good things to say about me and my flying. I don't have a single letter that I wrote for someone else to sign, nor have I pestered people I barely know to get them. I have numerous honest internal recs.

D> In my interviews, I tell the truth, I am myself, and I don't tell the made up stories that some interview prep places feed their candidates. I don't exaggerate or tell them "just what I think they want to hear."*

E> I have two checkride failures: My instrument rating 15 years ago, and my initial ATP oral. Other than that, my record is completely clean—I haven't even received a stern talking to.

I have a lot more to say, but I've noticed that many folks here tend to get sanctimonious and preachy when someone disagrees with them, and discard anything the other person has to say. And as I'm posting this on a rare day off, I literally have better ways to spend my time.

*(Outside of the airlines, I have interviewed several dozen times in tech, and the only time I didn't get an offer was when I interviewed with PDI/Dreamworks. Their concern was that I wasn't invested in the feature film industry, which was true. I actually regret that a little because the project they were working on was right up my alley (HTTYD), and I am now currently very into 3D animation, rigging and other TD work, which is my major hobby/passion at the moment. I've also sat across the table on hundreds of interviews, and hired dozens of candidates who almost all excelled. I've never seen a process more geared to hire straight, cis white guys than airline interviews.)

You will be somewhere soon, I know you will be. Just keep at it friend

 

[🦈💜]

You will be somewhere soon, I know you will be. Just keep at it friend

 

[ppragman]

Now that I can't fly anymore, I cannot say that I'm not "jealous" (for the first time in my life for literally anything) that people are having this fast of progression in their flying career. I'll never turn a prop or an N1 shaft again for money, but I cannot help but find it frustrating how many times I was told, "Your experience doing X isn't what we think makes a good pilot" when guys are getting into the left seat at a major more or less out of training.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Probably because every 135 charter has tried hiring retired airline guys and found that they have trouble keeping up with the insanity of the operation, and after a career of having flight planning, catering, fueling, deicing, lavs, hotels, ground transportation etc arranged for them don’t adapt well to the 135 environment….

Asking people who’ve hitherto sat in sullen silence with a two or three (at most) digit callsign and a 24h+ layover to slum it at the finest ‘burgs and ‘villes with more than one leg per duty period is not a good recruiting strategy.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Now that I can't fly anymore, I cannot say that I'm not "jealous" (for the first time in my life for literally anything) that people are having this fast of progression in their flying career. I'll never turn a prop or an N1 shaft again for money, but I cannot help but find it frustrating how many times I was told, "Your experience doing X isn't what we think makes a good pilot" when guys are getting into the left seat at a major more or less out of training.

But keep doing what you’re doing.

 

[Roger Roger]

But keep doing what you’re doing.

I will keep being not a legacy hire.

 

[derg]

Who got onto family airlines?

Family Airlines has been amazing to work for. I mean, we never got that 747 but we're running low, family-friendly fares between Las Vegas and all major US cities. Parents with carseats ALWAYS board first and we're going to have in-flight meals for all flights. Are you looking for a ground floor-level investment opportunity with sweet sweet upside potential?