Brief approach

[drunkenbeagle]

I seem to recall an effort by the FAA to change the name and identifiers airports and VORs specifically to avoid this kind of confusion. Sounds like the TEB VOR needs a new name and ID.

This wouldn't be the worst idea. It is more confusing when a center controller a few hundred miles out gives you "Direct XYZ" and XYZ is both the airport and a VOR 10 miles apart from it. In a case like that for TEB, a pilot may well not know the VOR even exists. Hence why we ask

 

[NovemberEcho]

Alright, my curiosity has overcome, what is RTFC?

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Alright, my curiosity has overcome, what is RTFC?

Read the F'ing Chart

 

[milleR]

Alright, my curiosity has overcome, what is RTFC?

I’m assssuming ... Read The F-ing Chart

At least that’s what I want it to be.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Read the F'ing Chart

Oh ok my guess was pretty close then

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Always program an IAF.

Exact opposite of what I do, but I do try to note the possible other IAFs that might come up (well, the mostly likely one I expect) to be ready to put that in instead.

 

[milleR]

Exact opposite of what I do, but I do try to note the possible other IAFs that might come up (well, the mostly likely one I expect) to be ready to put that in instead.

Too much work

 

[milleR]

Oh ok my guess was pretty close then

Get back to work. I need a Bravo clearance to avoid all these shenanigans

 

[NovemberEcho]

Get back to work. I need a Bravo clearance to avoid all these shenanigans

Man I'm at the damn vet cause my wife's damn cat decided to somehow cut his shoulder down to the bone. You don't want to see it when he's standing up. Definitely can see tendons, muscle and bone quite clearly

 

[milleR]

Man I'm at the damn vet cause my wife's damn cat decided to somehow cut his shoulder down to the bone.

Well that sucks. But it explains all the avatar changes lol

Not fun. Grew up on a farm. Pulling a horses leg out of a wire fence is a formative experience for a 9 year old. I feel ya.

 

[greg1016]

This wouldn't be the worst idea. It is more confusing when a center controller a few hundred miles out gives you "Direct XYZ" and XYZ is both the airport and a VOR 10 miles apart from it. In a case like that for TEB, a pilot may well not know the VOR even exists. Hence why we ask

Hence why controllers are supposed to use the phraseology "Teterboro Airport" when clearing to an airport, to avoid confusion. I believe when clearing to a navaid we are supposed to state the navaid type as well, but in practice that doesn't happen. Too much verbiage for a busy controller and you're really telling me I have to remember whether that particular navaid is VOR, a VOR-DME, or a VORTAC? They all look the same on the scope.

 

[CFI A&P]

To answer the original question: Brief at the top of descent. Which includes but not limited to fixes and altitudes along the arrival and approach.

Isn’t there a push to change the names of some NAVAIDs to avoid confusion? Such as Humble at IAH or Treasure at VRB. Maybe it will be changed from the TEB VOR to the “1,500’ at DANDY and WENTZ VOR”.

 

[Alchemy]

Anybody who flies to Newark more than twice a year knows to expect direct TEB. I’m sure these guys also get confused on the way out when they’re cleared direct SBJ and they go “uhhh we’re filed over PARKE” ... RTFC

This. I recently flew with an F/O on the 767 who'd never been to EWR before. He was surprised when I asked him to extend the final approach course on the FMC off of TEB VOR once we departed the STAR on vectors. Same when we departed that evening and I was programming the departure fixes into the FMC with the associated radials to expect vectors via. Sure, it doesn't happen that often, but better to be ready for it if it does (at least that was the case 10 years ago when I flew out of there every month or so).

Reason being, iirc, TEB isn't automatically depicted by the FMC when you select the ILS 22L, so it might take a bit of tribal knowledge to expect an intercept at TEB.

But to answer your question, we usually brief after we pick up the ATIS in a non-ACARS bird. which is usually about 250 NM from the airport or 35-ish minutes. If we have ACARS, usually abut an hour prior to landing. It's required to be done prior to top of descent because there a checklist done prior to ToD that has "approach briefing" as an item.

Honestly, if there were things like this at say, DEN or PDX where I don't have much experience, I'd probably not expect them either.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Reason being, iirc, TEB isn't automatically depicted by the FMC when you select the ILS 22L, so it might take a bit of tribal knowledge to expect an intercept at TEB.

There's tribal knowledge everywhere.

Sometimes it gets written down in the form of a NOTAM or if it is a really big deal, a chart note, and sometimes it's just "this how we do it, deal."

 

[RetiredATLATC]

According to @CRJ.InTheHeartOfTexas Trump will fix N90, LGA, EWR and TEB so it doesn't really matter.

 

[NovemberEcho]

According to @CRJ.InTheHeartOfTexas Trumo will fix N90, LGA, EWR and TEB so it doesn't really matter.

Well yeah that's why he's going to put his personal pilot in charge of the FAA

 

[RetiredATLATC]

Well yeah that's why he's going to put his personal pilot in charge of the FAA

Any day now. It'll be YUGE!

 

[NovemberEcho]

Any day now. It'll be YUGE!

Honestly though, they need to close LGA, TEB and EWR and build another JFK to the northwest of the city. It'll never happen, but that's what they should do.

 

[adk]

This. I recently flew with an F/O on the 767 who'd never been to EWR before. He was surprised when I asked him to extend the final approach course on the FMC off of TEB VOR once we departed the STAR on vectors. Same when we departed that evening and I was programming the departure fixes into the FMC with the associated radials to expect vectors via. Sure, it doesn't happen that often, but better to be ready for it if it does (at least that was the case 10 years ago when I flew out of there every month or so).
.

Oh boy, remember the good old days of "Join the Colt's Neck 350 radial" and watching guys panic?

 

[NovemberEcho]

Oh boy, remember the good old days of "Join the Colt's Neck 350 radial" and watching guys panic?

Still happens!