AS application question-employment history

[RMCBear08]

Also, extremely out of touch with industry standards.

I’d argue the opposite; I think they are VERY in touch with industry standards and I think they want to keep us as far away from them as possible.

They know that every other major carrier has scope language to protect pilot jobs in their CBAs, yet they argue it’s growth that will protect our jobs, not comprehensive scope language. We would somehow hamstring the company to explore other growth opportunities if we had a scope agreement. Never mind the fact that growth to AAG is adding more 175s than mainline jets. Hell, they won’t even agree that there needs to be 2 Alaska pilots operating our flights.

They know our work rules are junk and lag behind just about every other carrier, but if we get industry standard then they won’t get the “productivity” they need from us.

To say that they are out of touch or too aloof with the rest of the industry honestly just lets them off the hook. They know perfectly well where we stand and they would love to keep it that way.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I’d argue the opposite; I think they are VERY in touch with industry standards and I think they want to keep us as far away from them as possible.

They know that every other major carrier has scope language to protect pilot jobs in their CBAs, yet they argue it’s growth that will protect our jobs, not comprehensive scope language. We would somehow hamstring the company to explore other growth opportunities if we had a scope agreement. Never mind the fact that growth to AAG is adding more 175s than mainline jets. Hell, they won’t even agree that there needs to be 2 Alaska pilots operating our flights.

They know our work rules are junk and lag behind just about every other carrier, but if we get industry standard then they won’t get the “productivity” they need from us.

To say that they are out of touch or too aloof with the rest of the industry honestly just lets them off the hook. They know perfectly well where we stand and they would love to keep it that way.

Maybe. I see it as they know they will always have a cult like pool of applicants who grew up in the PNW and always wanted to work at AS. So why improve?

Once you hitch your trailer to a major you’re kinda effed if you leave. Depending on your age of course...


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[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Great news:


We anticipate hiring a minimum of 250 First Officers that are onboarded and line ready by June 1, 2022. To accommodate this plan, the First Officer job posting will open on July 1, 2021, and stay open for two weeks. Interviews will start in August to fill classes that will start the second week of October. This will provide time for us to hire and train to fly next summer's schedule. Please spread the word that we’re hiring to pilots you would recommend join our team.


The training department has acquired another 737 800 SIM that will be located next to our MAX simulator at the Boeing training facility. Training is also working to secure two more fixed base ground trainers. This will allow our training department to accommodate 60 or more new hires and the associated upgrades per month on the Boeing AC.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Boy, the hits on AS just keep on coming. I blame the weed.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Once you hitch your trailer to a major you’re kinda effed if you leave. Depending on your age of course...

That is why pilots don’t have leverage. If I was mgt, “don’t like your job here? Quit.”

What are you gonna do about it?

Who says they have to give you scope? Better work rules? Where’s your leverage?

The only leverage is the ability to strike and that just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Work to rule? Yeah right, guys trip over backwards to pick up open time at regular pay, let alone 150% premium pay trips. As long as they have pilots showing up to work, there is no problem.

It’s nothing personal. Their job is to stall. Nothing serious will get done until next summer when we get full Pre-Covid travel back and profitable once again. Then expect real momentum to start. We will be voting on a TA in 2023 to 2025. If you think it’ll be any sooner, I have a yacht to sell you in the Sahara Desert.

 

[Skåning]

I see it as they know they will always have a cult like pool of applicants who grew up in the PNW and always wanted to work at AS. So why improve?

THIS is the main take away. Change will be a huge challenge because the pilot group is divided between those that drink the kool aid and think that "culture" is compensation, and those that got acquired onto the list. Few others fall somewhere in between, but the main hurdle is that the company has done a stellar job hiring those that fit the anti union-pro company mold.

Prospective hires may not realize this, but we really have three different tiers of pilots, like a huge boomer population still have company pensions. But they voted that that wasn't important for the newer guys to have. Then a group has a combo of pension and 401k, then all who've been hired post (2006?) have just 401k's. Asking a negotiating committee to have everyone's best interest at heart is tough when the top and bottom want different things.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

THIS is the main take away. Change will be a huge challenge because the pilot group is divided between those that drink the kool aid and think that "culture" is compensation, and those that got acquired onto the list. Few others fall somewhere in between, but the main hurdle is that the company has done a stellar job hiring those that fit the anti union-pro company mold.

Prospective hires may not realize this, but we really have three different tiers of pilots, like a huge boomer population still have company pensions. But they voted that that wasn't important for the newer guys to have. Then a group has a combo of pension and 401k, then all who've been hired post (2006?) have just 401k's. Asking a negotiating committee to have everyone's best interest at heart is tough when the top and bottom want different things.

The ANC crowd woke up to the scope thing this year. At least the FAI commuters.

I’m still surprised by the “I got mine get f’ed” crowd though. I’m flying with someone that asked me if I was here for fun:

“I have a lot of fun on my days off.”

But you’re here for fun too right?

“I don’t have fun at work I’m here to get paid”

Oh come on tell me you wouldn’t do this for free!?

“The only thing I’ll do for free around here is burn this place to the ground.”

The look on their face was priceless and yea a pension guy.


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[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The ANC crowd woke up to the scope thing this year. At least the FAI commuters.

I’m still surprised by the “I got mine get f’ed” crowd though. I’m flying with someone that asked me if I was here for fun:

“I have a lot of fun on my days off.”

But you’re here for fun too right?

“I don’t have fun at work I’m here to get paid”

Oh come on tell me you wouldn’t do this for free!?

“The only thing I’ll do for free around here is burn this place to the ground.”

The look on their face was priceless and yea a pension guy.


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I’m surprised he didn’t ask you if you had your app in at Delta.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I’m surprised he didn’t ask you if you had your app in at Delta.

The mustache stopped that. I don’t look like I’m in my 30s anymore.


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[alaskadrifter]

I hope it’s not too late for scope, do you think an arbitrator will award it to you all?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I hope it’s not too late for scope, do you think an arbitrator will award it to you all?

No arbitrator will ever want to be seen awarding something like that which would restrict the company’s ability to conduct business. The arbitrator did the only reasonable thing: send scope back to pilots and management to figure out, while noting the pilot group had never prioritized scope protections in previous bargaining cycles. Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[///AMG]

I’m surprised he didn’t ask you if you had your app in at Delta.

hah that is funny. I was asked literally that question by a pilot who's title rhymes with piston chief pilot. I didn't lie, but I did say I'd rather go eskimo (which was true).

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

hah that is funny. I was asked literally that question by a pilot who's title rhymes with piston chief pilot. I didn't lie, but I did say I'd rather go eskimo (which was true).

Y tho???


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[Skåning]

Yeah trust us, Delta is waaaaay better

 

[///AMG]

Y tho???


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PNW basing easily, great airline from a customer perspective (IMHO). I've always flown with you all whenever I can. I will say I hear the counter argument loud and clear. At this point, it is more of a matter of who will hire me first than anything, so there is that. I've pretty much checked my wish list at the door at this point due to COVID year. I don't know what that means for my next professional life partner, but AS window does open a couple months before Delta's next one.

 

[///AMG]

Yeah trust us, Delta is waaaaay better

That's what all my delta buds tell me

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

That's what all my delta buds tell me

I mean. We aren’t saying this to be cruel. We need good people. We need people who are good at CRM mostly, IMO. I’d love to see you here but I do feel like for the sake of your career you should consider all available options.

At least go in eyes wide open. Please follow what is happening with our contract.

Start with our Union podcast: The Alaska Pilots Podcast

The latest episode is an excellent place to start. With details of our management’s refusal to even recognize there are issues with our most basic cornerstone issues. Such as scope, QOL, work rules etc...


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[///AMG]

Thanks Beef, and I appreciate the insight. Like most things in life, I am very sure I don't know what I don't know

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Not coming here for one pilot contract negotiation, IMO, is shortsighted. It will come to pass sometime in 2023-2024.

If you live in base or can live in base, this is actually a real good place to work. The highly vocal people I hear are commuters, especially long commuters. I feel for them. But now living in base, I drive to work and come home. It’s a great job. My pay is okay for 10th yr CA, my retirement 15.5% is decent, and of course I want scope and improvements in scheduling. But I wouldn’t write this place off. I like it and enjoy coming to work.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Not coming here for one pilot contract negotiation, IMO, is shortsighted. It will come to pass sometime in 2023-2024.

If you live in base or can live in base, this is actually a real good place to work. The highly vocal people I hear are commuters, especially long commuters. I feel for them. But now living in base, I drive to work and come home. It’s a great job. My pay is okay for 10th yr CA, my retirement 15.5% is decent, and of course I want scope and improvements in scheduling. But I wouldn’t write this place off. I like it and enjoy coming to work.

Not all of us are senior enough to start dealing with AS management as a captain.

I’ll be in the right seat for a very, very long time if we continue to farm out the majority of our flying to SkyWest/Horizon. So will AMG.

If I do upgrade our poor work rules will have me on reserve doing red eye trips and what everyone who has a line drops via sick calls AKA third step, for 90 hours a month. For years. So will AMG.

There is no protection from a merger. Unlike any other major airline. There is no protection from E-195s being flown by Horizon. Unlike any other major. There is no protection from Air Group starting an alter ego airline and farming out our mainline flying. There is no protection from One World taking our flying.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg. And for what it’s worth I drive into work too. It’s not bad. It’s just that United, Delta, SWA and American never called. Neither did Spirit or JetBlue. Allegiant was nice enough to send a TBNT.


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