Airplane Rentals Just Like Car Rentals

[Autothrust Blue]

In some parts of the world they have type ratings for all aircrafts from a C172 to the Jets, it`s the case on my CAA NZ based license. Once you gained a type you are entitled to fly as PIC, but you also need to be current on model within the last 90 days. I have flown the same model at different places without requiring a ck-out, in most cases they make you do a swing around the pattern (or some ground time if it has some special radios,..) and you are good to go, not a real ck out.

My certificate would be so much more impressive with C172 C182 C206 C210 BE50 BE95 PA44 DA40 on it. Not.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Or said flight school/FBO requiring a 3-5 hour checkout for an airplane (at 250/hr that I currently fly and have hundreds of hours in down in a busy B/C/D corridor in Florida, but not at some Class G airport in the northeast away from the major airports? Doesnt matter how much time, then its purely to make money or insurance premium is way too high.

Both, really. Insurance regulates where the FAA either can't or won't.

 

[swisspilot]

My certificate would be so much more impressive with C172 C182 C206 C210 BE50 BE95 PA44 DA40 on it. Not.

Yeah this system has actually big flaws, pretty much every company needs to have a type rate CFI so that a new hired pilot can be trained, companies need to contract one if there is nobody flying with them holding a CFI. There are some AC type that are so rare making it really complicated to operate them, I remember a company with a Trislander they would have to fly-in an Typed Instructor every time somebody new would be hired, one of the companies I worked for in the South Pacific had a Maule M-7 on floats they would have to send the pilots to the US as it is the only place with M-7 available for training. There are airlines over there that fly Twin Otters that only hire Instructors for this reason.

 

[ryan1234]

I think the system will be hard to sell, as rframe eluded to... the complexities of insurance and liability may trump it. Secondly, I can't recall having a checkout flight over 45 minutes. They were all good for local area stuff (i.e. Flight school X does their air work by this river inlet or MikeD and his posse do warrant-less searches on Wednesdays)

 

[Vector4Food]

.

Words can not express how much I would rather be island hopping around Vanuatu right now.

 

[derg]

Now I've got Abba in my head.

 

[swisspilot]

Words can not express how much I would rather be island hopping around Vanuatu right now.

Ever been there?

 

[Murdoughnut]

I think the system will be hard to sell, as rframe eluded to... the complexities of insurance and liability may trump it. Secondly, I can't recall having a checkout flight over 45 minutes. They were all good for local area stuff (i.e. Flight school X does their air work by this river inlet or MikeD and his posse do warrant-less searches on Wednesdays)

I had a 1.5 checkout once - from the school I had finished my PPL at no less. Replicated the entire practical. The only other checkout I ever did for rental was in a country town in Ohio - maybe .6 on the Hobbs ... maybe.

 

[Alchemy]

Cool idea - the checkout bologna is the main reason I don't fly GA anymore. The last place I tried to rent from had a policy that everyone needed a new checkout every 90 days in each type of airplane they wished to rent. That's more restrictive than airline training. Needless to say I haven't been back.

 

[Vector4Food]

Ever been there?

No, it's just far away from here and warm.

 

[cmhumphr]

At first I taught it was a company having many locations, but it`s much more simple then that as it`s like for participating FBOs and Flight schools.

cool idea but I see two issues:

- less money for CFIs
- Even if airplanes fly the same way anywhere in the country, each airspace and geography as it`s peculiarity that you can really only safely learn with a ck-out flight.

This. Flying in Florida VFR versus in the Class B of Washington DC are two totally different areas and you need a checkout to become familiar with that area whether you know the airplane or not.

 

[hammerhat]

less money for CFIs

How much time does an average CFI get from rental checkouts? I get less than 5% so if my FBO joins this or a similar program I'd hardly notice.

Even if airplanes fly the same way anywhere in the country, each airspace and geography as it`s peculiarity that you can really only safely learn with a ck-out flight.

I checked out with a number of FBOs around the country, most of those checkouts were about steep turns, stalls and soft field landings (and that is for an active CFI with plenty of time in type and no intention of going to soft fields)

Local airspace and terrain specifics can be briefed on the ground or even online.

 

[hammerhat]

This. Flying in Florida VFR versus in the Class B of Washington DC are two totally different areas and you need a checkout to become familiar with that area whether you know the airplane or not.

There's an online training on D.C. SFRA procedures. Seems adequate for a certificated pilot.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Renting to randoms is the highest risk, lowest profit scenario I can think of.

 

[swisspilot]

How much time does an average CFI get from rental checkouts? I get less than 5% so if my FBO joins this or a similar program I'd hardly notice.

I checked out with a number of FBOs around the country, most of those checkouts were about steep turns, stalls and soft field landings (and that is for an active CFI with plenty of time in type and no intention of going to soft fields)

Local airspace and terrain specifics can be briefed on the ground or even online.

You mean 5% of the total ck-out cost? or 5% of the Instructor fee on top of the AC rental? I would start looking for an other job if it`s the second case..I use to get about 30% of the Instruction rate (ground and flight time), I have friends flying for small part 61 schools that get the whole rate.

I have done about 5 ck outs in the past 3 years on: PA34, 172 (never flew one before the ckout), 206 and PA28. The multi and the 206 was all about maneuvers and landings, the 172 was all about airspace, we did a sort of scenic flight around and below the local class Bravo, similar the PA28 ckout.

terrain specifics can be briefed on the ground or even online

You are either joking or you have never flown in the mountains, I`m not talking about a 400 feet radio antenna...

There are also pilots that have never flown in busy airspaces...

 

[swisspilot]

Renting to randoms is the highest risk, lowest profit scenario I can think of.

I noticed as they don`t sound too exited when you tell them all you wanna do is take the gf up for a spin....

 

[hammerhat]

You mean 5% of the total ck-out cost? or 5% of the Instructor fee on top of the AC rental? I would start looking for an other job if it`s the second case..I use to get about 30% of the Instruction rate (ground and flight time), I have friends flying for small part 61 schools that get the whole rate.

Sorry I meant to say how much time I can log and charge for. For example of 100 hours dual given less than 5 hours would be rental checkouts, the rest would be normal lessons. I get the same hourly rate ground or flight, checkout, intro, lesson etc.

I was wondering if other instructors get much time from renters.

You are either joking or you have never flown in the mountains, I`m not talking about a 400 feet radio antenna...

There are also pilots that have never flown in busy airspaces...

I already mentioned DC SFRA before. Hudson Corridor would be another example, and that is one of the most complicated airspaces in the world. I agree with you that pilots that have never flown in a busy airspace or mountains should get some instruction from a qualified CFI beforehand. I disagree that a typical rental checkout is an appropriate time for that.

 

[swisspilot]

Sorry I meant to say how much time I can log and charge for. For example of 100 hours dual given less than 5 hours would be rental checkouts, the rest would be normal lessons. I get the same hourly rate ground or flight, checkout, intro, lesson etc.

I was wondering if other instructors get much time from renters.




I already mentioned DC SFRA before. Hudson Corridor would be another example, and that is one of the most complicated airspaces in the world. I agree with you that pilots that have never flown in a busy airspace or mountains should get some instruction from a qualified CFI beforehand. I disagree that a typical rental checkout is an appropriate time for that.

I generally don t think airspaces in the US are complicated, you have to consider that the FAA gives you all the tools: maps, being under radar control while on VFR flights and generally Atc is very accommodating to Vfr traffic, haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, when I was flying in Brazil my Maps didn t even have the airspaces on it, and outside the US there is no such thing as standardized airspace, each one has different volumes and shape, flying Vfr around Rio was crazy. Same thing in Europe, there are places with class A starting a 2000 feet, you have to follow Vfr routes by pilotage all the time..

I m sure many pilots could do fine with only a ground brief, but not all pilots have the same skills. I would rather learn the local airspace with an experienced CFI on the side then stress myself trying not to bust an airspace or having to fight to stay ahead of the plane because I m overloaded with things to figure out.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This. Flying in Florida VFR versus in the Class B of Washington DC are two totally different areas and you need a checkout to become familiar with that area whether you know the airplane or not.

If someone needs a checkout flight just to understand the local airspace, then he should have his airman certificate revoked.

 

[hammerhat]

I generally don t think airspaces in the US are complicated, you have to consider that the FAA gives you all the tools: maps, being under radar control while on VFR flights and generally Atc is very accommodating to Vfr traffic

FWIW Hudson Corridor is exactly the opposite. The standard sectional just outlines the class B limits, the VFR corridor reporting points are only printed on the back of New York TAC (as well as the online course), radar services are not available unless you're in the class B, in fact you are required to give those position reports on a discrete CTAF.

Anyway I implied flying in the lower 48 in the context of this thread. Perhaps in other parts of the world things are different.