Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I'm thinking 135 on-demand Pax. Cargo doesn't typically have that 24/7 crap. Not saying it doesn't exist though. Freight Runners is still rocking it.
After cargo???
- Thread starter Johnny150
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cmill
Cold Ass Honky
oh, you didnt know 135 guys all break the rules? Thats why we dont hire 121 guys.
Dugie8 the only reason some 135 CPs seem to be company men is because they have to put up with so much BS from ex 121 guys, on top of juggling all the BS that comes from the FAA. I kinda see what you're trying to do with the 24hr on call deal, but those ops are few and far between IRL, and if you dont like it dont work there, pretty simple.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yeah, just endless 15/9 where you are guaranteed not to be home all 15.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Heck, just based on what I've seen the since coming to the dark side is PLENTY of super fun interaction with the FAA! Spending my nights in OMA, which is near the notorious Lincoln FSDO doesn't help I'm sure...
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
so you see the ridiculousness of my statement, right? About as ridiculous as CPs not calling back 121 guys or some myth that only SPIFR 135 feces hot freight can do air ambo. You see it RIGHT?
brian434
Well-Known Member
Hey Dugie- I gave numbers when I made that statement. TWO employers told me they would not hire 121 guys. I didn't come close to saying ALL employers would rather hire 135 guys. It's all about keeping it in context. 
It seems that a few 121 carriers don't care much for 135 pilots either. They really seem to be very different roads in IMHO.
It seems that a few 121 carriers don't care much for 135 pilots either. They really seem to be very different roads in IMHO.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Hey Dugie- I gave numbers when I made that statement. TWO employers told me they would not hire 121 guys. I didn't come close to saying ALL employers would rather hire 135 guys. It's all about keeping it in context.
We kind of have the same unwritten rule, but it does go the other way also. I think in the past ten years we might have had 3 guys leave us to go 121, and i think only 1 is still there. Almost all our guys that leave go charter or corp. A few have gone ambo, a couple to flex jet, a couple of more up to AK, and a few working corp.
For better or worse it seems for the most part once enters one side of the field, they seem to stay on their side of the fence.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Is it ridiculous that CPs dont call back 121 guys? Maybe, but thats their prerogative. I dont think anyone said that only 135 guys go air ambo. I think for the most part they might be the only ones that CARE to do it. I mean, if you were hiring for a SPIFR job and had 2 resumes on your desk, one with 3000TT/2800PIC, the other with 4000TT/500PIC, who would you be calling?
z987k
Well-Known Member
From talking to CP's they like to see former 135 SP time because they've had too many people who've never flown an airplane by themselves not be able to do it. So I don't think 121 keeps you out, but if you went from CFI to right seat RJ, you're going to have a really hard time breaking into it.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Food for thought, flight express hasn't hired an airline pilot in years. They can't even pass the pre-test on basic commercial-instrument knowledge. To be fair, a lot of it was on weather theory, but that is stuff you have to know when you're by yourself, especially when trying to explain to your dispatch why you can't go or need to delay/divert.
I'm by no means one of those guys that thinks 135 guys are superior to 121 guys. Both sides have their own challenges. What I do find annoying though is the inherant "cock blocking" for lack of a better term when trying to switch sides. Going from one to the other is a learning and personality problem, not an experience one. A hiring person worth their salt would be able to filter out the ones that aren't going to learn or will clash in a crew environment in the case of going from 135 to 121. What I'm getting at is yes, a part 135 guy with turbine experience is just as qualified as a 121 captain to act as SIC on a 777, and a 121 captain is plenty qualified to go to a 135 gig. It's HR that's dropping the ball, hiring the wrong people.
I'm by no means one of those guys that thinks 135 guys are superior to 121 guys. Both sides have their own challenges. What I do find annoying though is the inherant "cock blocking" for lack of a better term when trying to switch sides. Going from one to the other is a learning and personality problem, not an experience one. A hiring person worth their salt would be able to filter out the ones that aren't going to learn or will clash in a crew environment in the case of going from 135 to 121. What I'm getting at is yes, a part 135 guy with turbine experience is just as qualified as a 121 captain to act as SIC on a 777, and a 121 captain is plenty qualified to go to a 135 gig. It's HR that's dropping the ball, hiring the wrong people.
EIR
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
I'm not knocking FLX here, but why would someone that flew the regionals return to a single engine aircraft?
I'm not a wx genius, but I know what will kill me. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know freezing rain / funnel clouds / severe ws are not something you should depart in.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Dugie, I think you need to relax, buddy. I certainly didn't say "only 135 freight guys can do air ambo", I said "most of the guys I know who do air ambo used to do 135 freight". You do see the difference between those two statements. RIGHT?
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
If HR exclused based on the ops reg a person operated under that is crazy. That is about just as silly as saying we won't hire any blonds because.....
HR needs to look at each indiviual and see what their background is and ask questions of them as necessary. I can definately see some pilots bailing from 121 regionals and majors and going back to 135. 135 at some places pays a hell of a lot more than 121 operators.
HR needs to look at each indiviual and see what their background is and ask questions of them as necessary. I can definately see some pilots bailing from 121 regionals and majors and going back to 135. 135 at some places pays a hell of a lot more than 121 operators.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
I witnessed those on a UPS DC-8 once.
"Wanna see our Auto Throttles?"
"Sure"
"Set thrust"
Flight engineer reaches up and sets the thrust.
On another note. The reason I didn't consider 135 freight as my entry level job is that from what I've seen on here, a lot of the guys who have done 135 freight, and even 135 people movers tend to move around all over the place quite frequently, much of it being lateral movement. Sure being at a regional sucks much of the time, but at least I've been with the same company for 4.5 years and know roughly what to expect.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
No offense taken, this is just a stepping stone for me. The two guys in my class had plenty of TPIC from regionals that went bust, hell our CP too. They are waiting things out until things stabilize in the 121 world, with no interest in doing regionals ever again. We pay better than most other cargo operators. The pay and relatively small amount of hassle to get hired here is why they come.
What I'm getting at with the weather is knowing WHEN you can go. There's no cancelling in the 135 world, only delays. The weather forecasts only go so far and a lot of times they're wrong. I mean just this morning the TAF, FA, and local weather man said absolutely nothing about fog in OMA today. I saw the temperature trending otherwise with lots of moisture in the air with calm winds. Called our dispatch and let them know that there will probably be a 3 hour delay if I didn't get in the air by 6:30. Sure enough, departed at 6:15 and shortly there-after RVRs were below our mins. Just an example...
Screaming_Emu makes a very valid point. If FLX were to for whatever reason, shut down or lose this line, I'd have to move immediately. This is why I'm on the fence about where I want to go long term. There's pluses and minuses to both sides of things.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Haha this. I love it when a new guy calls in and says he has to "cancel" the trip because "bad wx" is moving in. O RLY? When did you go on duty? "an hour ago" good you have ten more to wait it out and still do your run. Then its always "ohh.... I think its getting better now."
I learned a long time ago if its nothing thats going to kill you, then bite the bullet and get it over with, go home and have beer.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
For some people the option of lateral movement is a big +. There is no such thing as a lateral movement in the airlines unless you go from first year pay to first year pay at another airline. QOL would drop dramatically especially if your finances are built around say 40k/yr instead of 20k/yr. I bet this is why some of the 10 year FOs didn't move on from AE when they were stuck treading water. My overall thought is that until you get your "career" position you are going to be in a very volatile position. Perhaps Delta will one day decide to give your flying to compass, comair, pinnacle, or some other airline. What then? I know that if UPS one day took tons of flying away form my company that I would have options that wouldn't sacrifice QOL.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Well, yeah, frankly, I'm tired of the vagabond life. It's rough. That said, there's no decent corporate gigs out there that don't require jet time, or some other presently unattainable time without a hit to QoL. I guess sometimes you have to move back to move forward, but the guys who went to the RJ world are generally in a better position than the freight guys that I know, though they suffered for a few years.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
I'd take a 135 freight dawg most any day over and RJ FO with that has his/her only experience.
