1500 ATP Minimums for 121

deadstick said:
What if the 23 y/o CA looks like he's 19? :)

Do people think that MPL will ever get any support after the dust settles?
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Wont be able to if this passes.

"If you don't eat your meat you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!"

ATP to be at an airline. Think about it.;)
 
JKJCKSN said:
Forget this legislation B.S. to have 1,500 ATP mins for a Part 121 gig!! If the U.S. Navy can train guys right out of college to fly a jet at over Mach 2.0, drop bombs on targets with pin-point accuracy, dog-fight, fly long missions, land on a bobbing aircraft carrier at night in crappy weather, etc., etc., AND do all this single-pilot--it all sounds like it comes down to quality training and a good head on your shoulders!
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Fair enough. In that case the washout rate at a 121 airline should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 90%. Somehow I don't see that working in the grand scheme of things.
 
My opinions don't hold much value as I've never been in the 121 world and I'm a low timer as well...

But looking in from the outside...I think the ATP min requirement is a way to "ease" the traveling public's minds...just like TSA. In my mind both the 400 hour pilot and the 1500 hour pilot are going to be at the same experience level, 0, when it comes to flying 50 seat jets.
 
B767 said:
My opinions don't hold much value as I've never been in the 121 world and I'm a low timer as well...

But looking in from the outside...I think the ATP min requirement is a way to "ease" the traveling public's minds...just like TSA. In my mind both the 400 hour pilot and the 1500 hour pilot are going to be at the same experience level, 0, when it comes to flying 50 seat jets.
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Im a Captain that has flown with both 400 and 1500+ hour pilots. In EVERY case I will take the 1500 hour FO. He has seen almost 4 times the amount if things in airplanes. 400 hours was a good summer of freight. I agree so strongly with the ATP min to come it's not funny. The learning curve is going to be alot better for some one who has more experience. So yes they will be a better 50 seat jet pilot.
 
BobDDuck said:
Fair enough. In that case the washout rate at a 121 airline should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 90%. Somehow I don't see that working in the grand scheme of things.
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Not necessarily. Airline pilots aren't required to perform to the same level as U.S. Navy pilots, or any branch of service for that matter. This just goes to show that quality training CAN and DOES make the difference.
 
WalterSobchak said:
Im a Captain that has flown with both 400 and 1500+ hour pilots. In EVERY case I will take the 1500 hour FO. He has seen almost 4 times the amount if things in airplanes. 400 hours was a good summer of freight. I agree so strongly with the ATP min to come it's not funny. The learning curve is going to be alot better for some one who has more experience. So yes they will be a better 50 seat jet pilot.
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I believe that "case" is purely psychological. If you never knew how much time a person had you'd have to ascertain how "good" a pilot he is that purely from his performance. Happens all the time in many perspectives (e.g. women in the cockpit; regional pilots not as good as major / legacy pilots, since they fly smaller airplanes, slower aircraft; old guys in the cockpit (is he gonna die in there?); etc.).

Lot's of F/O's come from other airlines, too, not just from flight instructing, or whatever, and they may have more time than that reserve captain that just happens to have more senority, therefore making him the PIC.
 
JKJCKSN said:
Not necessarily. Airline pilots aren't required to perform to the same level as U.S. Navy pilots, or any branch of service for that matter. This just goes to show that quality training CAN and DOES make the difference.
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It's not just training, it goes to show quality people make a difference too. The other difference is the US Military can afford ($$$ wise) to pick and choose and train the way they do. I don't see any pissant cheap-ass regional ever doing the same, or even being that discriminating with who they select, for that matter. The $$$ just aren't there, and they're got every SJS clown in the world tripping over themselves to get a resume in.
 
MikeD said:
It's not just training, it goes to show quality people make a difference too. The other difference is the US Military can afford ($$$ wise) to pick and choose and train the way they do. I don't see any pissant cheap-ass regional ever doing the same, or even being that discriminating with who they select, for that matter. The $$$ just aren't there, and they're got every SJS clown in the world tripping over themselves to get a resume in.
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Well, since Pres. Obama is so keen on spending the taxpayer's money, he should throw some our way to "supplement" airline training. ;0)

But, I agree, people make the difference in the equation, as well. Regionals may not care to invest more money into training, and they take on that risk by doing so. I just don't think that legislation of this manner is required, nor do I believe it will have a positive impact on / within our industry.
 
I don't see why Captains should have any min amount of time or experience. If you're good enough to pass the type ride, you're good enough to be a captain......(SARCASM).

I could have passed the captain ground school/ride probably 6 months out of new hire training. Doesn't mean I would have been a COMPETENT captain.
 
Baronman said:
I don't see why Captains should have any min amount of time or experience. If you're good enough to pass the type ride, you're good enough to be a captain......(SARCASM).

I could have passed the captain ground school/ride probably 6 months out of new hire training. Doesn't mean I would have been a COMPETENT captain.
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WOW! I think you really need to give yourself more credit! As captain, you get to "call the shots". Clearly you've got the judgement needed to be a pilot, or you wouldn't be certificated as one. If you're not comfortable with something, or a situation, YOU as the captain have every right to deny taking any action you deem is too risky.

I see it all the time from the captains I fly with. One guy does it this way, the other wouldn't dare, but they're both captains and good pilots. They aren't breaking any rules or regulations, and they aren't jeopardizing anyone's safety.
 
This won't do anything. It will just delay the hiring of CFI's. Instead of getting hired at 500-1000 hours TT they will instruct another 6 months to 1 year and be in the same position as before. Because our contracts are negotiated and then signed, pilot pay won't increase. So in effect this won't change a thing.

Bad idea.
 
It will when the company wants to bring in an LOA to raise rates because they can't find anybody to fly their airplanes.
 
That still won't help. The reason people aren't pilots anymore is because the majors pay sucks compared to yesteryear, there is significantly less hiring going on at that level and an increase in flying at the lower pay jobs, and almost zero job stability where if you lose your job you are done and have to start over.
 
$40,000 is nothing when you're talking about the lost earning potential of an entire career spent at the regionals vs. doing, well, a lot of other things you could qualify yourself to do in fairly short order.
 
jtrain609 said:
$40,000 is nothing when you're talking about the lost earning potential of an entire career spent at the regionals vs. doing, well, a lot of other things you could qualify yourself to do in fairly short order.
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True. Less and less people are becoming pilots. I would hypothesize that it is because of poor pay and job stability and a lack of a ROI in their training.
 
Raising the Federal hiring minimum for any 121 job to ATP mins is a great idea, but leave 135 and the age 21 rule alone.
 
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