1500 ATP Minimums for 121

S

seaav8tor

New Member
There will be opposition to this by those who care about the bottom line and not who lives or dies. Cheap part 121 new hires with no experience would be a thing of the past.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-29-rwairsafe_N.htm

This would be good for the profession

Good for the traveling public

Good for the industry reputation

Good for the insurance industry



Bad for the ambulence chasing lawyers

Bad for the airlines looking for the cheapest pilots money can buy


THE FIGHT IS ON! This is not a done deal, who ever pulls harder will win.
 
What about all the current 121 FOs who don't have 1500 hrs? Would they be out of a job?

On the bright side, no more 19 year-olds flying airliners.
 
seaav8tor said:
There will be opposition to this by those who care about the bottom line and not who lives or dies. Cheap part 121 new hires with no experience would be a thing of the past.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-29-rwairsafe_N.htm

This would be good for the profession

Good for the traveling public

Good for the industry reputation

Good for the insurance industry



Bad for the ambulence chasing lawyers

Bad for the airlines looking for the cheapest pilots money can buy


THE FIGHT IS ON! This is not a done deal, who ever pulls harder will win.
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I was jumpseating on a guys flight who was representing his company and helping work on this proposal. They are also shooting for a minimum age of 28! Now thats just what I heard from this guy.
 
so then, where do guys get time? no 121...no 135... CFI yeah, but I still argue that a fresh CFI is the blind leading the blind...

and theres CERTAINLY not enough pt 91 gigs around to keep all the young/new pilots employed...

ive been actively pursuing some job leads outside of aviation. about had enough sillyness. student loans have to be paid.
 
That is absolutely glorious.

I will find it interesting to see about the currently employed pilots that have less than ATP minimums- perhaps a grandfathering period?

The devil is always in the details.... and the 28 age thing i highly doubt.
 
KLB said:
I was jumpseating on a guys flight who was representing his company and helping work on this proposal. They are also shooting for a minimum age of 28! Now thats just what I heard from this guy.
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I personally think that the age for ATP should be 21, I have a vested interest in this, however, ICAO is ICAO, and if we're going to follow ICAO with Airspace, MPL, and all the other garbage involved (think "English Proficient") then why the 23 year old age requirement. But that's just me.
 
I think this will be great for the industry. I'm also fairly confident; some smart ass lawyer working for a regional career will find the gaps and loops needed to get around this rule (If passed by the cong)


P.S I guess Go-Jet is going to have to close the doors soon: P
 
ppragman said:
I personally think that the age for ATP should be 21, I have a vested interest in this, however, ICAO is ICAO, and if we're going to follow ICAO with Airspace, MPL, and all the other garbage involved (think "English Proficient") then why the 23 year old age requirement. But that's just me.
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:yeahthat:
 
TXaviator said:
so then, where do guys get time? no 121...no 135... CFI yeah, but I still argue that a fresh CFI is the blind leading the blind...
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I'm pretty sure all of this hiring without ATP mins is a recent phenomenon...so people would probably get the time the same ways they did before 400hr FO's.
 
zmiller4 said:
I'm pretty sure all of this hiring without ATP mins is a recent phenomenon...so people would probably get the time the same ways they did before 400hr FO's.
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well since i got suckered into this in the middle of the 200hr FO craze... what are the ways people got time before?

and was there a glut of overqualified pilots willing to do those jobs for cheap as well?
 
TXaviator said:
so then, where do guys get time? no 121...no 135... CFI yeah, but I still argue that a fresh CFI is the blind leading the blind...

and theres CERTAINLY not enough pt 91 gigs around to keep all the young/new pilots employed...

ive been actively pursuing some job leads outside of aviation. about had enough sillyness. student loans have to be paid.
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You can still sit right seat part 135. The cargo company i came from hired FO's with 200tt. I think it's a great idea.

=Jason-
 
aloft said:
What about all the current 121 FOs who don't have 1500 hrs? Would they be out of a job?

On the bright side, no more 19 year-olds flying airliners.
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I am sure they will be grandfathered in. By the time this would actually get passed, I am sure they would be close to 121 mins anyways.

Will this end up shutting down the regional market? They certainly don't want to raise pay. What qualified individual with an ATP is going to want to work for 18 grand?
 
This idea seems like a good move in the current environment with lots of over qualified pilots, but what happens during a period a rapid growth-what if the period of growth is sustained. I think there would be a lot of unintended consequences from this change, just like the age 65 rule.
 
I think this is great! I'm all for raising standards. Sorry but hiring 500hr guys into the cockpit of a 121 airliner does nothing to raise the bar. More often than not they're "happy to have the opportunity," but along with that are happy to accept sub-par wages.

More importantly it will wash out more of the applicant pool....Fewer applicants can be more selective with job positions.

You want to work at an airline? Try putting in a year or two out there on your own...no more wet license with 400hrs safety pilot...or ex intern with a couple cross countries past his commercial into a training class.
 
aloft said:
What about all the current 121 FOs who don't have 1500 hrs? Would they be out of a job?

On the bright side, no more 19 year-olds flying airliners.
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What if the 23 y/o CA looks like he's 19? :)

Do people think that MPL will ever get any support after the dust settles?
 
How would the FO's with 1500+ currently be dealt with? An ATP at the next sim ride? I don't see an issue with 21 or 23 as an age limit. For someone to meet the requirements for an ATP by 21 they are most likely not slackers and have a head on their shoulders.
 
The ATP FO requirements will be one of the first things dropped from the bill. The regional wont be able to find enough pilots the next time they need a ton in a hurry.
 
I don't not support this. But it always makes me laugh when a new rule is proposed that wouldn't have prevented a single crash. How many 121 crashes have their been with pilots under 1500 hours? 2000 hours? 2500 hours?

Maybe the minimum should be 5000 hours to be a regional FO.
 
Clocks said:
I don't not support this. But it always makes me laugh when a new rule is proposed that wouldn't have prevented a single crash. How many 121 crashes have their been with pilots under 1500 hours? 2000 hours? 2500 hours?

Maybe the minimum should be 5000 hours to be a regional FO.
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Plus this is in light of the Colgan flight where the CA was flying. Its all a knee jerk reaction. Luckily its on the draft of the bill.
 
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