135/91 hrs combined ??

Flyn-Slow-N-Low

Well-Known Member
I fly part 135 so I can only be scheduled for 8 hrs. If I fly 7.5 under 135 is it legal to accept a airplane repo flight of 1.5 from the company saying it is operated under part 91. Dispatch seems to think it is ok, but I don't think so. I just figured they can call it whatever they want they are still paying me so I shouldn't do it. Any one have I better understanding of this than me?
 
I fly part 135 so I can only be scheduled for 8 hrs. If I fly 7.5 under 135 is it legal to accept a airplane repo flight of 1.5 from the company saying it is operated under part 91. Dispatch seems to think it is ok, but I don't think so. I just figured they can call it whatever they want they are still paying me so I shouldn't do it. Any one have I better understanding of this than me?

Yes, it's legal.
 
I fly part 135 so I can only be scheduled for 8 hrs. If I fly 7.5 under 135 is it legal to accept a airplane repo flight of 1.5 from the company saying it is operated under part 91. Dispatch seems to think it is ok, but I don't think so. I just figured they can call it whatever they want they are still paying me so I shouldn't do it. Any one have I better understanding of this than me?
Legal? Yes. Good idea? Maybe, maybe not.
 
Not if carrying a medical crew in a helicopter.

Otherwise, assess just how dumb dispatch is being on the occasion, and go from there.
 
I fly part 135 so I can only be scheduled for 8 hrs. If I fly 7.5 under 135 is it legal to accept a airplane repo flight of 1.5 from the company saying it is operated under part 91. Dispatch seems to think it is ok, but I don't think so. I just figured they can call it whatever they want they are still paying me so I shouldn't do it. Any one have I better understanding of this than me?

If I recall correctly part 91 (which a repo flight would fall under) they can fly you up to the max duty day (which depending on what type of 135, scheduled or non-scheduled can be 12 or 14 hours). But then they have to give you the appropriate rest which in this case would be 10 hours.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.267

A flight with no customer property and no paying passengers on board may be conducted under Part 91 (unless you have an FAA-approved company policy that prohibits this). In that case, Part 135 regulations do not apply to that leg. If a duty assignment is scheduled to include even one Part 135 flight (leg), however, then §135.267 applies to the entire assignment in terms of whether you can accept it or not. Which means after you fly all your 135 duty assignments they can pile on up to the total duty day but not in the middle of the duty day. So you can't go fly 4 hours 135 then 2 hours 91 then another 4 hours 135. But you can go fly 8 hours 135 and then fly another 4-6 hours part 91 right after.
 
If I recall correctly part 91 (which a repo flight would fall under) they can fly you up to the max duty day (which depending on what type of 135, scheduled or non-scheduled can be 12 or 14 hours). But then they have to give you the appropriate rest which in this case would be 10 hours.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.267

A flight with no customer property and no paying passengers on board may be conducted under Part 91 (unless you have an FAA-approved company policy that prohibits this). In that case, Part 135 regulations do not apply to that leg. If a duty assignment is scheduled to include even one Part 135 flight (leg), however, then §135.267 applies to the entire assignment in terms of whether you can accept it or not. Which means after you fly all your 135 duty assignments they can pile on up to the total duty day but not in the middle of the duty day. So you can't go fly 4 hours 135 then 2 hours 91 then another 4 hours 135. But you can go fly 8 hours 135 and then fly another 4-6 hours part 91 right after.

Actually, your duty period can be infinitely long as long as the 135 stuff ends when it's supposed to.
 
Yep, it's legal, but you can always say no if you don't think it's safe. Fatigue is real, never underestimate the power of a tired mind to make stupid mistakes in an airplane!
 
Who is paying for the repo?
You can be on duty forever, you just need 10 hours of rest (blah blah blah)


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Sure does. What does A001 say about part 91 legs.


I think it's A001


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See this: https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/takeoff-below-landing-minimums.230276/page-4#post-2535025

_____________________________

In regard to the question posed here concerning whether “positioning flights” conducted may be conducted under Part 91, which one contributor believes cannot be done, stating that any such flight must be construed to fall under Part 135, that is not consistent with FAA legal interpretations.

The FAA Office of Chief Counsel regularly responds to questions of legal interpretations, issuing letters on a variety of topics useful to pilots. Users may access such legal interpretations at the FAA website: (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/RIIndex.cfm),
Or, just google FAA HomeOfficesChief CounselPolicy & AdjudicationRegulations.

In particular, the Office of Chief Counsel has provided helpful guidance on this question. In a letter dated January 5, 2011, to Mr. Wesley C. Converse, Director of Flight Operations of Red Wing Aircraft, Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, AGC-200, states clearly that “ 119.1(e)(3) establishes that certain ferry (e.g…“positioning”) flights may be conducted under Part 91. “ Here is a link to the interpretation:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2011/converse-redwingaeroplane%20-%20(2011)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

Not only has the Office of Chief Counsel spoken to the question in the form of an interpretation, but the Administrator has made the very argument in at least one past case. See FAA Order No. 95-8, May 9, 1995 (Docket Nos. CP93WP005), “In the Matter of Charter Airlines, Inc., James E. Walker, and Larry A. Mort,” at pp. 18-19, stating “Complainant (e.g..the Administrator) also refers to FAA-written interpretations of the relevant regulations to prove that while Section 135.1(b)(3) provides that ferry flights are not governed by Part 135, ferry flights nonetheless may be considered as other commercial flying under the flight time limitations.” (emphasis added)

What this means is that such flights which are not engaged in common carriage (that is, “carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire.” See 14 CFR 119.21(a)(4) and (5) for further explanation) are not in themselves construed to fall under Part 135, and thus may indeed operate under Part 91 for purposes of regulatory compliance (that is, weather minimums, pilot qualifications, etc.). However, the pilot, if being paid for such pilot time, must count the time as “other commercial flight time” for purposes of compliance with flight time limitations. (Such limitations as appear under 135.265 or .267)

But, that is very different from believing an empty, repositioning, or ferry flight must operate under Part 135.
It is not, according to the Office of Chief Counsel.

I saw the alert. I take it the question is whether repositioning or ferry flights are subject to Part 135 or whether they can be conducted under Part 91. I can't give a definitive yes or no, but I don't think you are going to find much more than what @YakatakXXL pointed to.

Nothing says in specific words "a repositioning flight is under Part 91 whether or not the customer is paying for it" but the history of Chief Counsel opinions and FAA enforcement actions going back into the 1980s suggests this is the case, with the distinction being "carrying persons or property for compensation or hire" rather than simply who is paying for the flight.

FWIW, that makes sense to me since the purpose of Part 135 rules is to protect the "persons or property" being carried, not the crew or aircraft. If you think about it, the the inclusion of Part 91 flight for compensation in the duty time rules fits as well.
 
My apologies, it's A001. I'm out of 135, amazing how fast you brain dump this stuff.

ba325dfb4a78c911ece47a2f68add56f.jpg


This is what lets you do all the 91 stuff but use your 135 opspec approvals (RVSM, average weights, etc) for a non revenue leg/flights.


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