ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Lower than standard takeoff mins will do it too if memory serves.
You need a mile to depart on a 135 flight.
- Thread starter Itchy
- Start date
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
I’ve also only done single pilot but we have EOD in our ops specs.
Another answer, if the airport is in uncontrolled airspace at the surface (Class G) and the pilot can ensure adequate VFR cloud clearance requirements are met until reaching controlled airspace, the pilot can depart VFR and file a CYA Pirep. This is also assuming daytime ops. At night, or controlled airspace at the surface, no bueno.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Right, but the presupposition from the OP was that after checking all the boxes and doing the flow chart he still needed 1 SM to blast off.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
There’s also always the Mr. Chow approach.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
“I need 1sm to takeoff. What visibility do I need to takeoff with?”
Is that the question?
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
no...it’s I need a mile, I can see I have a mile, but the legally required weather station says I don’t. Is there a way to launch short of checking the ramp for FAA/CP types and going all leeeeroyyy jeeeeenkins?
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yup. EOD means you can get in, but you can't get out.
Itchy
Well-Known Member
Yes. Need a mile. Looking down the runway, it’s obviously over that. ( but NOT vfr), and awos is stuck on 1/2 or 3/4....
1. The FAA’s position is that the AWOS is controlling for the entire field, even if conditions vary on the field. As far as the FAA is concerned, if the AWOS says it’s less than a mile, it’s less than a mile, despite the fact that you can see more than a mile. The legal department has issued a letter on this and if I can find my copy I’ll update this post with the details.
2. AWOS devices use an averaging function when determining visibility. When visibility is improving it is common for the AWOS to lag by about 15 minutes. Sometimes all you need to do is wait a little bit to be legal.
3. Some locations have poorly located weather facilities that produce erroneous readings. Point Hope (PAPO) is a good example: structures near the weather station cause blowing snow to swirl around the visibility sensors. It is not uncommon for its AWOS to be reporting low vis while the cameras show good vis. Depending on your company’s relationship with the FSDO, it may be OK to dispatch to or from such a location; we would do it at the handful of known problem airports because we had systems that could prove to the FSDO that conditions really were better than what the AWOS was reporting. I’d guess that the vast majority of pilots aren’t in and out of the same uncontrolled field on a regular basis, so it’s likely that few are in a position to work out an understanding with the FSDO, but I bring it up because @ppragman, @Capt. Chaos, @Roger Roger and a few others here probably have faced similar circumstances.
4. Any time you find yourself operating at a field where the AWOS and your eyeballs disagree you should report it to the FSDO and ATC. FSDOs do keep track of problem areas and can help get problem areas fixed.
2. AWOS devices use an averaging function when determining visibility. When visibility is improving it is common for the AWOS to lag by about 15 minutes. Sometimes all you need to do is wait a little bit to be legal.
3. Some locations have poorly located weather facilities that produce erroneous readings. Point Hope (PAPO) is a good example: structures near the weather station cause blowing snow to swirl around the visibility sensors. It is not uncommon for its AWOS to be reporting low vis while the cameras show good vis. Depending on your company’s relationship with the FSDO, it may be OK to dispatch to or from such a location; we would do it at the handful of known problem airports because we had systems that could prove to the FSDO that conditions really were better than what the AWOS was reporting. I’d guess that the vast majority of pilots aren’t in and out of the same uncontrolled field on a regular basis, so it’s likely that few are in a position to work out an understanding with the FSDO, but I bring it up because @ppragman, @Capt. Chaos, @Roger Roger and a few others here probably have faced similar circumstances.
4. Any time you find yourself operating at a field where the AWOS and your eyeballs disagree you should report it to the FSDO and ATC. FSDOs do keep track of problem areas and can help get problem areas fixed.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Cancel release. Depart VFR.
z987k
Well-Known Member
The FSDO nor a POI can wave a regulation or reinterpret a interpretation. It's literally irrelevant what their opinion on the matter is when the lawyers get involved for whatever reason.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
How is it not VFR if it’s daytime, class G at the surface?
Itchy
Well-Known Member
Great question. In this scenario lets say it’s 300 obscured in mist. Remaining clear of clouds would be problematic.
Agreed. We showed the FSDO and our POI that the AWOS was giving bum readings by having them look at the camera and the AWOS simultaneously. There were no repercussions when we continued to go into those airports while the AWOS was reporting low vis. There wasn’t a waiver or reinterpretation, and there weren’t any issues. Like in a lot of situations in Alaska, common sense prevailed.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Then in that case my first answer stands. Call FSS, break the AWOS, taxi back and enjoy the FBO lounge or hotel, depending on your duty situation.
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ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Right but conversely if you don’t leave you’re stuck in Yankton, SD for another day. Which is basically a fate worse than death for you and your passengers. ;-)
As for when this actually happens, under 135 where the option is there to go VFR, I’ve been in this situation a bunch of times. When fog is covering half the field and the AWOS and it’s clear and 1-million on my side of the airport I’ll routinely depart VFR if I can justify it and as long as safety isn’t compromised. @Plata listed the blowing snow thing - I’ve seen that before too.
If it’s marginal in any way though I wouldn’t depart.
