Why so mad?


New Member
IFRflight, why are you really so angry at Pan Am? I think we would all like to know...

Jonathan Nelson, I think we should choose from the list below:

1) You were fired from your dispatch job for using your password to schedule your final stagecheck without authorization
2) It took you four times to pass your final stagecheck for private pilot, the only rating you managed to get done in 6 months
3) You failed the private pilot groundschool and had to retake it (one of only 5 or so people ever to accomplish that feat...)
4) You had to have a meeting with the Chief Flight Instructor, the stagecheck pilot, the head of the groundschool, the counselor, and of course on the speakerphone, Daddy, who was funding what you turned into a $15,000 private pilot license
5) All of the above

And, as far as I can remember, you didn't so much leave the school voluntarliy as you were allowed to finish your private (eventually) and then were booted.

To all those other people that may listen to what the 19 year old pilot reject had to say about the school and took it seriously, don't. He's obviously bitter because he couldn't take it. Other people can't take it and they are let go as well. Some of them write posts on here putting the school down because they are frustrated at themselves and this is the only way of them getting back. This is not the best place to get information about flight training nor Academies to get it. Research it yourself and make an educated decision instead of basing your investment on the opinions of some jaded individuals.
Hey Orville,
Your attack at his character, abilities, and person are pitiful.

You hear that? Pitiful.

You are very ignorant to write your dislike for an individual in a public forum by name. If you are going to be so ignorant, why not have the balls to post your own name moron?

You've shown your color.
>>This is not the best place to get information about flight training nor Academies to get it. Research it yourself and make an educated decision instead of basing your investment on the opinions of some jaded individuals.

This is just part of my research: getting testimonials from actual students that have gone there. I have received both good and bad comments about the school. From what I've heard, the bad outweighs the good. Thus, I'm going to invest my money & time some place else.

Obtaining ratings is a costly endeavour and I just want to know that where I'm going put down 1,000+ dollars it's going to be wisely spent.
Well it was one of the best places to get info until someone like Orville comes along. I agree though, just take the good and bad info and then go take a tour of the place yourself. Just get the ratings first and then do extra-curricular stuff afterwards.
>>I agree though, just take the good and bad info and then go take a tour of the place yourself.

I'm worried about taking the tour. If I go on a tour, I'll get a glossed-over, sugar-coated, feel-good description of the flight school. What would really satisfy me would be to attend class for a day and experience what an "average day" feels like.
Hey Purdue-

I dropped into Pan Am one day in a holey T-shirt, shorts and never told them that I ran a website or was a MD-88/90 first officer and took the tour.

I'm not plugging Pam Am in any way, but I think they have their crap together pretty well.

You know, I just thought of something. I think Pan Am's major competitiion is Westwind across the parking lot. If you drop in there, take the tour and ask them about "dirt" on Pan Am, it might balance out the flight school propoganda a little.

Remember, there are three sides to every flight school: marketing, disgruntled students, and the truth! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Who knows! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Hey everybody,

What I wrote about Pan Am was not written because I am a "disgruntled ex student." As a matter of fact, I still attend Pan Am and do so because they will get me my ratings which is the BOTTOM (hope I spelled that right) line. What I wrote was written because I am trying to help other people. If I had to do it over and knew what I know now I wouldn't choose Pan Am. Of course, there is no way of knowing such things unless you actually attend the school. That was the intent of the letter, to share my experience, and hopefully that will help somebody with his/her decision.



P.S., Orville, why are you such a dick?? Just because I critized Pan Am you have to insult me because I spelled a word wrong? Why don't you come back with a thoughtful response and proof me wrong. Besides, why are you such a big fan of Pan Am? Also, I am pretty sure that my education is far superior to yours...you sound kind of dumb.
I think we should be careful about calling people names--especially when it concerns spelling errors. We all make them (I have), even Mr. Wright who, if I'm correct, screwed up "voluntarily." The larger issue, as I see it, is this: If Mr. Wright is correct about the real experience of Mr. Nelson at Pan Am, has he not done us all a favor by "correcting" the record? Is it fair to the school for a disgruntled student, "under cover" of a pen name, to slam and tarnish the reputation of a school when they can't "correct" the record? Mr. Wright should be upfront about who he is, too. Is he a fellow student or a marketing guy for the company? The way I see it, Mr. Wright has put Mr. Nelson on notice---"I know who you are, you aren't telling the truth, and don't try it again." If he's right about the facts, I can understand his rage, and his need to set the record straight. No one should be allowed to take pot shots free and clear if they can be refuted--that's a good lesson for all of us. If you're bull•ting us, someone might know who you are, and they might expose you for what you are. In my mind, that's a good reality check. Since Mr. Nelson seems to disagree with Mr. Wright's version of the "facts," here's my question---Mr. Wright, how do you know what you know, and how do we know it's the truth? To Mr. Nelson, sorry, but "prove" is the word you were looking for, and it's not spelled "proof." I'm sure you're a nice guy, but you are a lousy speller. (There are about 3 other mistakes in your last post to Mr. Wright.) Anyway, what's the truth here--has Pan Am been unfairly slammed or not?

I still am planning on making the flight school rounds, don't get me wrong.

I'm also going to be attending schools in Florida. It would be a little out of the way to attend schools out in Arizona. My whole family, extended and otherwise, live in the New England area.

I have read your piece on Pan Am and that's what turned me on to them. I may still end up there. Remember there's a lot of time between now and January 2004. I'm just trying to gauge the caliber of their program from testimonials until I can visit them next summer.
I didn't even respond to Orville's post when I first saw it, I just laughed because it is so ridiculous. Like I said before, I was at Pan Am for six months. I know the deal there and just about all of the people. I don't even remember a Jon Nelson being there or ever seeing his name on the schedule. If he was though, and used his password to get a stagecheck scheduled, I believe it. That is how unhappy and desperate students were about the stagechecks! Think about it...you pay over 50 grand to go to school and make the necessary changes in your life to switch careers and attend the school full time, and then you find yourself with nothing to do for weeks at a time. Just imagine someone's desperation when they have nothing to do for two or three weeks and were expecting to pursue a full time career!

As far as the other things about that guy it goes like this: 4 times to pass the final private stagecheck isn't unusual. Most people found the third time was a charm.

Failing private ground school, yeah that was probably the student's fault although it happens.

And paying 15,000 for the private. Not unusual either. Most students paid ten to 12,000 for their private licenses at Pan Am.

I just tried to return my books to Pan Am the other day. I wanted to keep most of my books and just return about 30 dollars worth. Well when I went to return them, I was informed that a new policy had been invoked and that students could not return books 14 days after they've withdrawn. They got me again! Funny how Pan Am will pay for your airfare to Phoenix to take the tour, but once they have your 50,000 or 80,000 dollar loan, they will do everything they can do avoid giving you back one penny. Just amazing. Maybe I'm naive, but I couldn't believe they squeezed every penny out of me they could. I don't even want to think about how much interest they make by keeping everyone's loan money in their bank accounts since students aren't allowed access to their loan money. I give them their credit. They are certainly good business men and advertizers.

I could go and on about other things, but I'm actually tired of talking about Pan Am. I guess there are lots of shady businessmen and scam artistis in the world; just a fact of life. Here's a hint I will give out though to someone looking into flight schools. When you visit the areas, forget about the flight schools for a second. Talk to other people around the airport who work their everyday and see what really goes on, especially people that work in the bookstores, employees at the restaurant, people at other FBOs in the area etc. Do some undercover work; you are making a large investment.
Oh Dear...

I happen to know Mr. Nelson and while it is true he struggled with some of the groundschool, he tried hard and it is the schools responsibility to teach the students not to just give them a book and tell them to get on with it. The school failed him completely along with his CFIs of which there were more than a couple.

My experience? I was a Major in the Air Force and I attended Pan Am most of last year where I got my PVT through Multi Commercial, I left to do my CFI elsewhere because the CFI training was shambolic and the CFIs who instructed that part of course were in my humble opinion inept.

I beleive:

a. It's not worth the money.
b. The management are morally corrupt.
c. The promises and innuendo's about getting a job are simply untrue.
d. It's not worth the money.

If you want to go to an honest flightschool and save thousands, take a look at Chandler Air Service.

UH1 knows who I am.

UH1 etc know who I am.
E6B Jock

I really don't mean to get involved with individual flight forums, but you wouldn't happen to be a CFI at Chandler Air Service, are ya?
That would be the predictable conclusion Mr Taylor but no, I am not, and never have been employed by CAS. I work at another school in AZ but would recommend CAS simply because of the quality of the training and integrity of the owner and staff. Hey if people want to load up with 50K worth of debt and give it to Pan Am then that's just great. I'm just agreeing with many others of the forum who have been to Pan Am that it's business practices leave a lot to be desired. UH1Flyer, keephope alive09 etc. etc.

I'm sure you're a real smart guy but I'm afraid you really didn't get the full story during your "visit". Few people do until they've been there for a while and start to understand just how expensive and difficult student life at the school can be.
I really didn't mean to spark a debate about the quality of the flight school, but it sounded like a spam.

Flight schools make a lot of bank from recommendations from students in the forums and I've caught, on many occasions, people posing as students in a particular flight schools' forum to spread misinformation.

I'm not saying you did that at all, but it raised a suspicion and I owe it to the users to question it.

While we're on the subject, there is no perfect flight school for everyone. I am a ERAU grad and I think it was a great program. However, would ERAU's program be generically good to all aspiring students? Probably not. Was it good for me? I think so.

Since Mr. Wright has declined to identify himself, we might assume he's affiliated with Pan Am. I'm not sure if it applies to schools such as this, but I think it's illegal for an institution to reveal a student's confidential grades/records without his consent. If you can find out who Mr. Wright is--and he's got anything to do with the school--I would check out their privacy policy. You might have an interesting bone to pick. Just an idea to think about. I dislike scumbags even more than I do somebody lobbing unfair complaints at a flight school. From the other posts it sounds like your version of events has as much credibility as that of Mr. Wright--and you were "outed" (for lack of a better term) against your will. Good luck and good spelling:>)
Hello everybody,

I am kind of confused by the above reply. First of all, about pursuing any kind of legal action about people giving up identities, I dont know why that applies to me? I dont know if Mr. Wright works for Pan Am and also it's none of my business; he's not giving out my info!! Maybe if he knew who I was and was giving out information about me but he's not and even if he did I am doing fine in the program and wouldn't be embarrassed. Although, it would be wrong of him. Secondly, it's fine if you don't find me credible but I wonder why. I think I have been completely fair and honest and have said nothing that would indicate otherwise. I was never "outed" from Pan Am and I am actually still a student at Pan Am which you would know if you truly read all my posts. Maybe that will raise my credibility. All I am trying to do is share my opinion.


My point was this: It seems to me that Mr. Wright logged in as a new user for the express purpose of identifying (by name) a certain Mr. Nelson. His claims have been countered by others who say they know Mr. Nelson and Mr. Wright's version of events is biased, to say the least. Since Mr. Wright has declined to go on the record as to how he knows what he knows, I just think it's unethical for someone to attack a person, by name, without being upfront about who he is, and about what connection he has to the school, if any. "Outed" refers to being identified by name without one's consent--which I believe to be very unethical if it comes from an educational institution. It just seems very strange for a new user to come forward to attack a single individual, and then clam up. Since Mr. Wright has not come forward, it's a logical conclusion that he's connected with the school in a way he doesn't want to admit--or that the school is using him as a proxy to attack Mr. Nelson for criticizing the school. So, to Mr. Nelson, whoever you are, I feel your pain.

Your initial post (the one I replied to) was specifically addressed to me so I guess your saying that I am Mr. Nelson??? I still don’t understand what you are trying to say. This last post you put up is completely different than the other one. Whatever, in any case, if your wondering, I am not Mr. Nelson.


Like I said...To whomever and wherever Mr. Nelson is, I think Mr. Wright did not do the right thing in pointing out your true identity without your consent. And we're still waiting for Mr. Wright to identify his relationship with the school. Flyer, since you're not Mr. Nelson, feel free to drop this issue. Uncle, okay?