Who/What are we going to blame the next one on?

[Autothrust Blue]

It's totally a generation issue-maybe better yet, say it's an attitude issue. Just the fact that they are at a regional makes their attitude completely different than someone at a major. I think there is a pretty high percentage of RJ pilots living up to profile we're discussing. What I'm worried about is that they'll be hired at majors soon and this "attitude" will start infecting the major airlines. I would hope I'm wrong and that the majors would have some sort of mentorship or no B.S. policy where the newb FO decides that it would be "uncool" to brief a departure, and the captain would say, WTF is wrong with you, here at Delta/United/Southwest we brief stuff, and fly the plane like the company wants. If these pilots are getting hired at majors it won't be too long before were discussing this attitude/professionalism issue at the majors level.

Erm, wow. Good grief.

My paycheck does not affect how I operate the airplane or how I conduct myself professionally. It does have a material effect on my willingness to work on days off, but it doesn't affect the quality of the flight operation one iota.

Oh, and the 1,500 hour rule won't fix this either. Good try though.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

I would hope an airline like Delta would catch that attitude during their psych evaluation. Perhaps the other legacies might want to look into a similar approach when interviewing. Is Delta the only one who does it?

Nope. The same people that contract with Delta also contract with numerous other carriers.

 

[desertdog71]

I am a huge believer in the psych evaluation.

Way to squash my dreams you meanie!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[JustinS]

I would hope an airline like Delta would catch that attitude during their psych evaluation. Perhaps the other legacies might want to look into a similar approach when interviewing. Is Delta the only one who does it?

I believe expressjet does it. I had a friend interview there the other week. He told me they basically took Delta's interview process.

 

[juxtapilot]

I would hope an airline like Delta would catch that attitude during their psych evaluation. Perhaps the other legacies might want to look into a similar approach when interviewing. Is Delta the only one who does it?

Yea that is my hope too, but AFAIK all that eval does is tell Delta what kind of personality the applicant has. Delta would have to know what kind of attitude these pilots have in order to compare them to the interview evaluation.

Oh, and no amount of hours will make a safer pilot if they've already been infected with this attitude.. 100% of the people I've had issues with are ATP's..

 

[derg]

Way to squash my dreams you meanie!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Well Danny, the world needs ditch diggers too.​

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Yea that is my hope too, but AFAIK all that eval does is tell Delta what kind of personality the applicant has. Delta would have to know what kind of attitude these pilots have in order to compare them to the interview evaluation.

Oh, and no amount of hours will make a safer pilot if they've already been infected with this attitude.. 100% of the people I've had issues with are ATP's..

BUT, BUT, BUT...

 

[SeanD]

I am a huge believer in the psych evaluation.

I agree, that's one hell of a way to filter out the honey badgers. Im certain the legacies are aware of those ego maniac mentalities at the regionals too and know exactly what to look for.

 

[Gonzo]

I think it's a little generational and a lot of lack of mentoring.

I think that is the biggest reason. I have flown with some great CAs at my airline who have helped me out a ton, but I have gotten more mentoring from this website then I have from pilots at my airline. I could see myself being one of the guys we are talking about if I had never found this site.

 

[derg]

I think that is the biggest reason. I have flown with some great CAs at my airline who have helped me out a ton, but I have gotten more mentoring from this website then I have from pilots at my airline. I could see myself being one of the guys we are talking about if I had never found this site.

You had me at hello.



Seriously, everyone should be able to at least name five pilots (captains or first officers -- especially since most FO's (here) have been Aircraft Commander and/or captain before), off the top of their head, that you can confide in on a professional level. Especially if you're a captain. If you don't have them, find them, quickly.

I probably run something past a pilot I confide in at least once per month.

You should see some of the emails and texts I get about "situations" at other airlines. My first thought is usually "WOT?! People DO that?! You've GOT to be 'crapping' me")

 

[ERfly]

I feel there was a distinct lack of mentoring at my last company (at least when I was an FO). I'm sure part of it had to be that a majority of the guys I had flown with had their careers stalled by the flow-backs. I flew many 4-day trips as an FO with the hot mike turned off (and it wasn't my choice). However, upon further examination, a lot of it was just a bunch of socially inept people at a certain base we had. I even saw an example of this as a Captain. I was trying to hand an airplane over to a very senior, southern-based Captain. The airplane had a couple of gremlins in the transponder. I was trying to tell him about it for their trip back. Halfway through my explanation, he interrupts, "Stop talking. You just need to stop talking!" I stopped mid-sentence, wished the FO good luck and walked up the jetway.

I was beginning to see the same attitudes creeping up shortly before I left, as I flew with a lot of disgruntled FOs who had been in the right seat for 6+ years. I always did my best to try and mentor, but some people just completely shut you off.

It's totally a generation issue-maybe better yet, say it's an attitude issue. Just the fact that they are at a regional makes their attitude completely different than someone at a major. I think there is a pretty high percentage of RJ pilots living up to profile we're discussing. What I'm worried about is that they'll be hired at majors soon and this "attitude" will start infecting the major airlines. I would hope I'm wrong and that the majors would have some sort of mentorship or no B.S. policy where the newb FO decides that it would be "uncool" to brief a departure, and the captain would say, WTF is wrong with you, here at Delta/United/Southwest we brief stuff, and fly the plane like the company wants. If these pilots are getting hired at majors it won't be too long before were discussing this attitude/professionalism issue at the majors level.

Speaking for my current employer, I think we do weed out a lot of personality issues in the interview. We don't do a psych eval, but the interview process seems to handle it. Your interaction with the "Ambassador" that leads you around the training center is a good tell. The rest of it comes during training and in your probationary year. I've heard stories from some folks in the training center that they have had a few uncooperative guys go through training. Their behavior was corrected. On the line, I don't see that type of behavior. Learning from our past, I think our safety and standardization culture is second-to-none in this industry. Once you get to this level, it's no longer "cool" to not follow the rules. I have a feeling that if you tried that at my major, you'd get a "Dude, WTF" come to Jesus talk from the Captain. For the ones I worry about causing problems, I have my doubts they'd make it past the interview.

 

[Gonzo]

I was beginning to see the same attitudes creeping up shortly before I left, as I flew with a lot of disgruntled FOs who had been in the right seat for 6+ years. I always did my best to try and mentor, but some people just completely shut you off.

I have been sitting in the right seat 5+ years and am not happy about it but that doesn't mean I can be unprofessional about my job. Hell the easiest why to be lazy is follow the rules. A one minute post flight is a ton easier then the poop storm you have to deal with if you don't do one and the next crew finds something.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I have been sitting in the right seat 5+ years and am not happy about it but that doesn't mean I can be unprofessional about my job. Hell the easiest why to be lazy is follow the rules. A one minute post flight is a ton easier then the poop storm you have to deal with if you don't do one and the next crew finds something.

...people don't postflight?

What the...Woodhouse?

 

[juxtapilot]

You had me at hello.



Seriously, everyone should be able to at least name five pilots (captains or first officers -- especially since most FO's (here) have been Aircraft Commander and/or captain before), off the top of their head, that you can confide in on a professional level. Especially if you're a captain. If you don't have them, find them, quickly.

I probably run something past a pilot I confide in at least once per month.

You should see some of the emails and texts I get about "situations" at other airlines. My first thought is usually "WOT?! People DO that?! You've GOT to be 'crapping' me")

Yep.. I remember some sketchy stuff happening at my previous workplace and 5 minutes later I was talking to a whale driver from here about it... Kinda panicking and whatnot... Seriously, this place is awesome..

 

[WhatRJ]

Grow some balls and quit taking 20k a year flying jobs. Force companies to pay a professional wage and watch hiring standards go up.

Not going to happen for a long time. There are people in my year (junior in college) who would probably pay the regionals to let them fly those shiny RJs. Makes me so happy I found this site because I know I would have ended up just like them eventually. Better late than never.

 

[JustinS]

Not going to happen for a long time. There are people in my year (junior in college) who would probably pay the regionals to let them fly those shiny RJs. Makes me so happy I found this site because I know I would have ended up just like them eventually. Better late than never.

I cringe when people from my college say, "Man, this job is so awesome, I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this. I would totally do it for free!"

 

[dasleben]

I have been sitting in the right seat 5+ years and am not happy about it but that doesn't mean I can be unprofessional about my job. Hell the easiest why to be lazy is follow the rules. A one minute post flight is a ton easier then the poop storm you have to deal with if you don't do one and the next crew finds something.

Post-flights protect you, too. I always put eyes on the tailskid after landing, just so I can say "Not me!" if the next guy drags it.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Whose egoes are we talking about, exactly? I must be expressing myself poorly or something, because it seems so simple to me. If I'm a guest in your home, I don't tell you that your little hellspawn are ill-behaved and probably going to wind up in jail or that the cocaine on the nightstand is illegal. I say "thanks for having me" and never come back. Now, if you start waving a gun around and theatening to kill me, yes, I call the cops.

Anybody who gets butt hurt about having a jumpseater bring something to their attention.

 

[SurferLucas]

I'm going to say it, since we're all thinking it..."Thanks Obama"

 

[Screaming_Emu]

It's totally a generation issue-maybe better yet, say it's an attitude issue. Just the fact that they are at a regional makes their attitude completely different than someone at a major. I think there is a pretty high percentage of RJ pilots living up to profile we're discussing. What I'm worried about is that they'll be hired at majors soon and this "attitude" will start infecting the major airlines. I would hope I'm wrong and that the majors would have some sort of mentorship or no B.S. policy where the newb FO decides that it would be "uncool" to brief a departure, and the captain would say, WTF is wrong with you, here at Delta/United/Southwest we brief stuff, and fly the plane like the company wants. If these pilots are getting hired at majors it won't be too long before were discussing this attitude/professionalism issue at the majors level.

Agree with some of that, but will also throw a few things into the mix. I don't think its really any one thing that is causing some people to make a conscious decision to suck at their job.

1) A combination of wanting to impress people and entitlement. I'm not picking on career changers here. I've flown with many career changers who have been great captains. But I will go out on a limb and say that most captains who I have flown with who aren't very good, have been career changers. To stereotype a bit here, they just want people to see them as an airline pilot, they don't really care to be any good at it. They spend time standing at the flight deck door schmoozing with the passengers while you're stuck doing all the work. Lengthy PA's in their best "airline pilot" voice. They see other regionals and comment on "hah...those _____ guys WISHED they worked here." Even though your regional is just as crappy, if not worse. It's all about how they're perceived. As long as people think they're a good pilot, that's good enough for them. These are the same guys who have very basic piloting skills at best, but throw around "when I go to Delta...." like its a certainty.

2) Complacency/Stagnation. I try to be as professional as possible, but this is the one that is getting to me lately. I've been in the right seat of an RJ for almost 6 years. For the last 3 of those I have been in the same base, flying the same plane, to the same 12-13 places. I know the ATIS frequencies for most airports I go to. I feel like what is supposed to be the best years of my life have been a little bit stolen from me because I haven't seen a raise of more than $2/hr since I moved onto second year pay. I'm supposed to be doing adult things right now. Buying a house, having kids, etc. But because of what has happened to this industry, it's just not in the cards right now. I could leave but 1) there's the supposed light at the end of the tunnel and 2) while I don't make a ton of money, its more than I'd make if I bailed out and started doing something else. Operationally my company is a joke. Going above and beyond to try to get things done on time and with any measure of customer service has exactly the same result as not trying at all, only you're more frustrated and tired. Being motivated to show up to work lately has been a real challenge, but that's where professionalism comes in.

3) Cowboy mentality. The usual, I think I'm a badass because I don't follow the rules. I'm good enough that I don't need them.

I think those are the major 3.