What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio?

Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

Hello friends I am new to JC and would like to add my input. I actually went to DCA, finished all my ratings there and was hired as an instructor. I did not accept the job when I was told I would have to move away to another base to work as a flight instructor. When I told them I could not move away, and would not accept the position, they actually had the audacity of asking me what I am going to do when an AIRLINE JOB asks me to move. I wanted to start laughing in their faces. They are actually comparing a 300 dollar a month flight instructing job, to an airline job.
I am happy with my flight training at DCA, but I do feel that it was ridiculously over priced. I also think it is ridiculous when former students complain about how much they were spending. It takes only a bit of common sense to know that the estimated price of ANY flight school is simply an ESTIMATED PRICE. And yes you will soend more. Granted you shouldn't have to pay 58 dollars per hour for the instructor and 100 dollars per hour for a 30 yr old cessna. But anyways now that I have "seen the light" and left DCA I would not recommend it to a prospective student.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

What I would like to know is if you had accepted.. would they have been willing to help you re-locate.. ie.. moving expenses etc..
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

Ha!!!! are you kidding.

They would not even raise a finger to try and help me out. They really don't care about the individual. I was told that the people who did the best on their tests in instructor standardization class would be able to stay and teach ground school or have some position that would allow them to stay instead of being shipped away. Out of my standz class I received the highest percentages on every single test. But still they would not work with me. Needless to say I was not a happy man. I spoke with everyone I could over there to try and stay in Sanford, but everyone gave me the same answer "It's our policy." Although I was upset by all this at the time now I realize that staying in Sanford is even worse that going to another base. The average new instructor in Sanford flies about 12 hours a month. I have several friends who were in the instrument group for 7-8 months and finally transferred out with about 150 hours dual given in the logbook. And that was before the group leaders took away 3 flights from the instructors and did the flights before each stage check themselves because the pass rate was too low. But the funny thing is that now the pass rate is even lower than before. Oh well.
Although I may sound bitter, I would like evryone to understand that I am not a disgruntled former student and instructor(for 1 day). I do not regret going there, I just would not recommend it to others. But hey if you have a lot of money, the system works...oooh yeah you have to be very patient and deal with a fair share of crap as well. But in the end if you make it through, you're almost certain to get a regional airline job.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"But in the end if you make it through, you're almost certain to get a regional airline job."

Same could be said for training at, and then instructing at, any number of big and small flight schools.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

well, "almost certain" is definately NOT a GUARANTEED interview for an airline job now is it? seems like students really have to take it in the a** in order to get up to that GUARANTEED interview. paying oodles of $$ till your eyeballs are filled to the brim with debt and having to kiss ass every day in order to move up is not what I call client service. To me, just listening to all the past experiences, it seems like if you've won the lottery or have a large inheritance & a well used brown nose, you can make it and get to the interview portion of the program, otherwise, move back 20 spaces & start over elsewhere.

It's too bad they wouldn't work with you - did they want you to go up to the new Dayton base or are there others (I haven't looked at the website, so i don't know).

it doesn't surprise me that when asked to move they wouldn't help with relocation. why should it come out of their pocket when your the one working on moving up in your career path..after all, your *supposed* to take it and like it right?
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if/when you decide not to "go with what the company says", the company wrings their hands with an evil smile on their faces saying "yes, got another one and hello key bank"
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I never would have made it at another base for $10/hr...but I had fun there, never let anyone bother me and got a job....
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

[ QUOTE ]
well, "almost certain" is definately NOT a GUARANTEED interview for an airline job now is it? seems like students really have to take it in the a** in order to get up to that GUARANTEED interview. paying oodles of $$ till your eyeballs are filled to the brim with debt and having to kiss ass every day in order to move up is not what I call client service. To me, just listening to all the past experiences, it seems like if you've won the lottery or have a large inheritance & a well used brown nose, you can make it and get to the interview portion of the program, otherwise, move back 20 spaces & start over elsewhere.

It's too bad they wouldn't work with you - did they want you to go up to the new Dayton base or are there others (I haven't looked at the website, so i don't know).

it doesn't surprise me that when asked to move they wouldn't help with relocation. why should it come out of their pocket when your the one working on moving up in your career path..after all, your *supposed* to take it and like it right?
sarcasm.gif
if/when you decide not to "go with what the company says", the company wrings their hands with an evil smile on their faces saying "yes, got another one and hello key bank"
sarcasm.gif


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You are also taking for Gospel what some people post here. There is a misconception amongst students, and I have to say that I felt the same way at the time I was going through the program, that you must kiss a lot of @$$ to be hired. "Don't complain and don't make waves" was another common mistruth...

Because as a student you are looking to get hired at the end of the program, it is normal to feel that way. But now that I've been on the inside I can tell you that reality is different from what is preceived to be. The student's success at DCA is solely dependent on their performance and attitude towards training. Note that I wrote :"Attitude towards training" and not general attitude. Someone that is constantly trying to do better and studying hard, learning the stuff and putting the time and effort that is required, will get hired. You don't need to be an "ACE" ( some kids are just God's gift to aviation and do everything right the first time...) to become an instructor as I am proof of that. I busted my share of checkirdes, but learned from my mistakes instead of trying to blame someone else for it...

As far as being sent to another base... The need for instructors at the bases must be filled and at times there is no need for instructors at Sanford. That is known by all students and if someone claims that they didn't know that they are being naive, to say the best. Unfortunately it doesn't always work out the way people want, and I would probably think twice if I had to be relocated when I graduated. But I knew the possibility was there from the very beggining.

Now you read the posts from people that have an axe to grind and come to the conclusion that "that is the way it must be there all the time". While they are the exception to the rule.

As far as customer service.. we have a real nice guy that takes care of that. But people think that if they go to him asking for help that they are going to diminish their chances of getting hired. And that is another misconception. I have gotten credits for flights that could not be completed due to maintenance issues...All this nonsense about having to suck up and drink the cool-aid crap is just male bovine dung...

This forum is clearly biased against DCA and I am sorry that you guys get caught up on it.

That said I do not think that DCA is "perfect" not that there is no other path. But DCA is a viable choice and has been for a lot of students and instructors that I've met. I have just completed my MEI training last week and my instructor got hired this week by Comair...
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"This forum is clearly biased against DCA"

If you think this is bad, you should check out flightinfo.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I've been there... some of the poeple that post there posts here too...

I think Doug's site is more interesting, and as such more deserving of my personal time.

Just an update on the time to get "there" issue we had discussed a few threads ago...

I decided to quit the Instrument Group Leader position and finish my term at DCA as a Check Instructor. I need a couple of hundred hours to be released and the Check Group allows me to get them faster.

If everything goes well I should be hired in September or October this year...

How about your friend that was getting trained at the FBO? Is he done yet? ( and I honestly mean no malice in these questions)
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"How about your friend that was getting trained at the FBO? Is he done yet?"

That guy got hired at Ameriflight a couple of months ago with 1202 total and about 50 multi. He's on the PA31 now but says turbine PIC is six months away if he's willing to move to a different base. No, he's not on the list at a regional but some majors hire straight out of Amflight, if he decides to stay. If he doesn't decide to stay, I'd say he could go to the regional of his choice after a year at Amflight.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I am glad to hear that! ( I mean read)

I guess that in a year from now that regionals will be hiring even more...

Had I not taken the leader position I would be on FO training now... as it has happened to all my buddies that started Private Pilot with me on July 2002...

One of my friends actualy graduated from Standz a month after me and she is attending class at Expressjet... And Comair is hiring a lot lately...

Your friend spent probably less than half of what we did... but my friends went straight to a jet...I know there are lots of pros and cons here and I don't want to start back on the same old discussion ( I can imagine that Mikey is ready to fire!)

I am sure that your friend will be flying for a regional in a year (or less) and after that on to bigger and heavier equipment.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"I know there are lots of pros and cons here"

The only con that I can see, even from your point of view, is he's not on the seniority list at one of the DCA guaranteed interview airlines. I hate to speak for him but I hardly think this is really a problem as he'll likey be logging PIC turbine by the time you get hired. Should he decide he really wants to work for Comair or ASA (he won't)...you guys could possibly be in the same class. You can draw your own conclusions on the overall success of your route vs his, it's all in the eye of the beholder. There is no doubt which route I think is the better way to go....I've been saying it for years now....

Amflight doesn't do much for your jet time column (at least at the present time), so he'll have to think about how that could impact things. That could lead him to a regional but I'd rather see him go to a third level pax/freight outfit and skip the whole regional thing. Pay is better and so would be the heavy jet time. We'll see what happens. You should ask me again in another year.

"I am sure that your friend will be flying for a regional in a year (or less) and after that on to bigger and heavier equipment."

He says Southwest has hired guys straight from Amflight (with type rating), so I don't know if will be necessary to work for the regionals. It will be interesting to see. For sure, when he hits a 1000 PIC turbine in a couple of years, or less, I'll recommend him at UPS.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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Now you read the posts from people that have an axe to grind and come to the conclusion that "that is the way it must be there all the time". While they are the exception to the rule.

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If it were one or two posts, sure. There just seems to be a pattern that would indicate a problem with your school.

G
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

While I was at DCA, they had me thoroughly convinced that there was no other or better way to get to an airline job. Now that I am instructing at an FBO I see things very differently. Just in the past couple of weeks 3 instructors of the 10 we have got hired flying turbine equipment. Two of them had less than 1000 hrs total time. I wish I would have known that this happens all the time. Referring to planediveguy's post about students claiming to not know of the possibility of having to move away. Of course I knew all along that the possibility was there, but what I was told(and it wasn't just hearsay from students) was that they would take into consideration that I was married and very established here, that my wife has a decent job here, etc. But in the end they just said "It's our policy." I no longer believe in the DCA system. Yes it does indeed work, the training is great, the hire rate is excellent. But in reality you can have the exact same results from going to Joe's FBO at your local airport and train for a fraction of the cost. I was speaking to a buddy of mine this week who is at a delta connection regional airline and he told me they have been hiring people off the street with mins.(1000, 100) without any kind of special guaranteed interview. So there is no need for a student to spend so much money because they can and will get hired from outside of DCA.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

With 150+ students per year, it is only normal not to have only 2 or 3 negative posts... and it is well known that people are more prone to report a bad experience than a good one.

If all the guys and girls that got hired for the last three years had the time and started posting positive notes here you wouldn't have as much fun though...
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I know who you are now... I remember your problem and I agree that in your case it would be nice if they had given you a position here and I myself tried to give some of my input in your favor...unfortunately it wasn't enough .

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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I checkhed Ameiflight's website, interesting stuff.

I guess that if your friend bypasses the regionals he might be able to get to the Majors before I would be able to, even though with my age I will probably stay at the regionals until retirement. ( I'm 39)

I do have connections at Fed-Ex, Northwest, Delta, Continental, Aloha and Cathay Pacific...

I still have an open invitation for you to come and see the school if you are ever in the Orlando area and have some time to spare...
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"I still have an open invitation for you to come and see the school if you are ever in the Orlando area and have some time to spare... "

What would be the purpose of that?

Nothing can override the dishonor the marketing program brings to DCA, in my view.

Put on your website that your pay CFI's $10/hr.
Put on the website that you don't graduate from the program or get the interview guarantee until you work there as a CFI for 800 hours.
Take away the BS about being "owned by Delta makes all the difference". It's great for passes, the rest is meaningless, in my book.
Finally, put a link to Jetcareers at your website so people can get a balanced idea of what this industry is about.

Even if and when the big academies clean up their advertising act, I could never be a proponent of one simply because I don't see it as the best way to go. It's not the way I did it. It's not the way my friends did it. At the same time, it works for some people, and that's fine. But you'll never see me advocating the big academy route as the way to the top. Planediveguy...that's your job, not mine.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

Invitation is still open, and the purpose is not to change your mind. But allow you to be more credible in your criticism. Everything that you post regarding DCA is based on hearsay. I'm sure the route you took works great and I understand that you are a proponent of it and always will.

What gets me is the fact that the school is portraied as an "evil entity" that is out to trap people in their marketing schemes, while that is not true.

The FBO route would not work for me, so DCA was and is my preferred option. And I have seen their system work very well for a lot of people. It is not for everyone, but is a viable option.

All those things you would like to see on DCA's marketing should be addressed to Yankee one, as I do not work for the marketing department. I am just an Instructor there.

I mean no disrespect so again if you are around please feel free to contact DCA and ask for me.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

[ QUOTE ]
Invitation is still open, and the purpose is not to change your mind. But allow you to be more credible in your criticism. Everything that you post regarding DCA is based on hearsay. I'm sure the route you took works great and I understand that you are a proponent of it and always will.

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It would be one thing to question Don's credibility if his comments were directed towards the quality of training, or facilities, or aircraft, or anything else that really requires on-site verification. But since his critique has only been against the marketing and advertising tactics of your employer, I fail to see how you can use a word like "hearsay" and keep a straight face. We can read advertisments and observe marketing strategies and have valid opinions on those topics without visiting your school, don't you think?
 
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