Video of forced landing in Australia

[Ash Williams]

OK USMCmech- Did you say, "I don't work with students that are idiots."? Do you give them some sort of are-you-an-idiot-test before the engine failure lesson?

I don't have time to cut and paste your posts. (And you seem like the kinda guy that would edit his post after being called out) But in one post you say,

"I never stop the prop!"

And then in another you say,

"If you had ever seen this demo, you would know that stopping the prop on most light trainers requires slowing to just above stall speed...."

Let me guess- you've never actully done it but saw a video. Your instructor did it. Or you read about it on the Internet. Or you lied about not stopping the prop and DID do it... but in a responsible way?

 

[Area 5150]

Here we go..............

 

[tlewis95]

I still don't understand how shutting an engine down in a twin can be perfectly ok but as soon as 'the' engine is shut down it becomes an emergency.

You can't do a go around on one engine in most twin trainers either, and I consider a relatively un-maneuverable single engine landing in a Seminole much more risky than a deadstick landing in a Skyhawk because of its higher speed and lack of options/maneuverability.

 

[Ash Williams]

Here we go..............

Ha! If I was drinking something, it would have come out of my nose on that one! Nice work! Sometimes the shortest posts are the best.

 

[USMCmech]

OK USMCmech- Did you say, "I don't work with students that are idiots."? Do you give them some sort of are-you-an-idiot-test before the engine failure lesson?

I don't have time to cut and paste your posts. (And you seem like the kinda guy that would edit his post after being called out) But in one post you say,

"I never stop the prop!"

And then in another you say,

"If you had ever seen this demo, you would know that stopping the prop on most light trainers requires slowing to just above stall speed...."

Let me guess- you've never actully done it but saw a video. Your instructor did it. Or you read about it on the Internet. Or you lied about not stopping the prop and DID do it... but in a responsible way?

It is a well known aerodynamic fact that stopping a propeller requires slowing down to just above stall speed. As I said, when I had an actual in flight engine failure during slow flight, the propeller did in fact stop.

Perhaps I should have phrased this better, so let me start over. When I preform this demo, I do not do what some of those video's show by slowing to slow flight and stopping the propeller. That is just too risky for my comfort level. I have my students maintain best glide which keeps the propeller spinning 100% of the time.

If during this demo, the propeller did in fact stop spinning, I would stop the demo and immediately restart the engine because continuing would be too risky for me.


BTW, I've been part of this site for the better part of a decade. If you want to argue about flying, I'm all for it. If you want to question my integrity, we will have words.

 

[USMCmech]

Here we go..............

I'm up this late because my 4 year old won't go to sleep and I am camped outside his room as he pitches a fit, what's your excuse?

Back to netflix and BSG.

 

[Area 5150]

I'm up this late because my 4 year old won't go to sleep and I am camped outside his room as he pitches a fit, what's your excuse?

Back to netflix and BSG.

Sex!!!

 

[USMCmech]

Sex!!!

That's how I got into this mess!

 

[Area 5150]

That's how I got into this mess!

Lmao!!!!

Yep, it will bite ya!

<----past the 4 year old stage, I'm dealing with a 14 year old teenage girl, 1st year in high school stage meow! I'm entrenched in a big ole bowl of drama soup! Actually, wish she was 4 again...

Oh, lets not forget that she is 1 Directions, biggest fan...........(kill me...)

**ahem**

Editor Note: <---- has the best, most well grounded, straight A student of a daughter that any parent could wish for, but that 1 direction BS, damn you Simon Cowell

 

[Ash Williams]

BTW, I've been part of this site for the better part of a decade. If you want to argue about flying, I'm all for it. If you want to question my integrity, we will have words.

Whoa! We have an Internet badass over here trying to hold on to his 10 year Internet reputation!

Well, don't let me ruin it. Continue...











This just keeps getting better.

 

[Ash Williams]

BTW, I've been part of this site for the better part of a decade. If you want to argue about flying, I'm all for it. If you want to question my integrity, we will have words.

Seriously, C'mon man! That's too funny! Please tell me you're trolling more than I am!

 

[Bumblebee]

I still don't understand how shutting an engine down in a twin can be perfectly ok but as soon as 'the' engine is shut down it becomes an emergency.

You can't do a go around on one engine in most twin trainers either, and I consider a relatively un-maneuverable single engine landing in a Seminole much more risky than a deadstick landing in a Skyhawk because of its higher speed and lack of options/maneuverability.

dude, you can still fly the seminole with an engine shut down. It's part of the training syllabus and you do it over 4000AGL. This is killing the engine in the pattern and landing... no go around ability, there is no room for error and if the engine does not restart it's now a real emergency.
In the PA44 you do a zero thrust "single engine" simulation for landing. If you need to go around it is briefed in all training and in the check-rides that the engine is the PF to do what is necessary.

thats why...

 

[tlewis95]

dude, you can still fly the seminole with an engine shut down. It's part of the training syllabus and you do it over 4000AGL. This is killing the engine in the pattern and landing... no go around ability, there is no room for error and if the engine does not restart it's now a real emergency.
In the PA44 you do a zero thrust "single engine" simulation for landing. If you need to go around it is briefed in all training and in the check-rides that the engine is the PF to do what is necessary.

thats why...

Yeah I got that. All I am saying here is that I feel safer landing a 172 deadstick than a PA44 on one engine. The feathered engine on a twin has just as much chance (probably more thanks to lack of accumulators) of not restarting as any other engine. I would rather have to put a 172 in the grass next to the runway (at what...40 knots?) because someone pulled out during my round out (during that 1 or 2 second window where they couldn't be avoided) that I didn't see than try to go around in a single engine Seminole that could likely end up a 88kt controlled crash in the grass. The book says that a Seminole will do a go around and it should - if you are light, initiate it early enough, and have DA and configuration on your side.

I am biased on the 'emergency' aspect of it as well I guess. After 400ish non-eventful 'real emergency/no go around ability' landings in gliders doing it in a light single (within reason and with an extra layer of risk management) is no different to me.

 

[Bumblebee]

really?

All I am saying here is that I feel safer landing a 172 deadstick than a PA44 on one engine..

are you proficient in ME aircraft? Because to me it's not even comparable...and I can land a throttled back SE to Commercial standards...so no I'm not afraid of it, just can't believe you'd rather have no engine than one engine...I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I would prefer that I had to make a forced landing rather than a controlled single engine approach...I can't.

But OK...your ass in the seat, you make the call.

 

[tlewis95]

really?

are you proficient in ME aircraft? Because to me it's not even comparable...and I can land a throttled back SE to Commercial standards...so no I'm not afraid of it, just can't believe you'd rather have no engine than one engine...I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I would prefer that I had to make a forced landing rather than a controlled single engine approach...I can't.

But OK...your ass in the seat, you make the call.

Yeah I am. If we are talking about a multi trainer with a single engine service ceiling of 3800' DA then yes. I also know that I can make a controlled deadstick approach just as well as a controlled single engine approach. My chances of surviving a 172 landing in the grass or on a taxiway next to the runway because an airplane pulled out I feel would be better than trying to do a single engine go around in a Seminole that starts in the round out. Now give me a multi with more power and/or a lighter wing loading that realistically could do a safe single engine go around and I will change my answer.

I would rather fly a 172 through the Rockies than a Seminole as well for the same reason. I can put a deadstick 172 on the side of the mountain at 40kts in a much more survivable way than I could a Seminole that is clinging onto lift and descending slowly at 88kts.

 

[Bumblebee]

well good on ya then...I know if my SESC is below my current altitude, I always am looking for a place where the terrain is below that. then I don't have to land on the side of a mountain. That came up for me all summer. My 337 was going to get me about 7000 guaranteed, so I made sure whenever possible that I could do a drift down to above terrain (or the river generally) and had a downstream out. Whne I flew fire patrol in the 206 there were times I realized that the best option I had was knocking the wings off on a road that went into the canopy...

Id take a flight to a better crash site any day to just getting handed my fate. But to each his own like I said before...I just can't see the other side..yet. maybe someone can 'splain it but probably not.

 

[Bumblebee]

That came up for me all summer. My 337 was going to get me about 7000 guaranteed,

I knew this because I shut it down BTW....

 

[tlewis95]

well good on ya then...I know if my SESC is below my current altitude, I always am looking for a place where the terrain is below that. then I don't have to land on the side of a mountain. That came up for me all summer. My 337 was going to get me about 7000 guaranteed, so I made sure whenever possible that I could do a drift down to above terrain (or the river generally) and had a downstream out. Whne I flew fire patrol in the 206 there were times I realized that the best option I had was knocking the wings off on a road that went into the canopy...

Id take a flight to a better crash site any day to just getting handed my fate. But to each his own like I said before...I just can't see the other side..yet. maybe someone can 'splain it but probably not.

That is a good point. No matter what you are flying in the mountains, fly it like a glider with a way out if you can. When there is 'no way out' give me a 172 over a twin though.

 

[USMCmech]

Id take a flight to a better crash site any day to just getting handed my fate. But to each his own like I said before...I just can't see the other side..yet. maybe someone can 'splain it but probably not.

There definitely seems to be a cultural divide about single vs multi engines that defies logic. I flew a single (albeit a turboprop) night IFR for years, while many pilots will not fly a single day VFR. The statistics clearly show that light twins are more dangerous than comparable singles after an engine failure, but many still demand the second engine.

I guess it partially depends on your previous experience. Me personally I take comfort in knowing that if you hold best glide and keep the thing right side up, a single will give you a survivable landing almost every time. Compared to twins that want to roll over on their back and impact vertically.

I'm definitely in the 1 TP is better than 2 pistons crowd, cause that is what I flew every day and I never felt unsafe at all.

 

[dasleben]

Are there seriously instructors who shut down the only engine during training? If your employer knew what you were doing, you'd be promptly fired. If the Feds knew what you were doing, you'd be promptly violated. Any questions why?

The Billy Badass schtick is entertaining to a point, but at this point it's simply unprofessional, nonsense hackery. You guys need to knock this crap off before you get someone hurt (or worse). You need to get your heads right, or find a new line of work.