Dart_8992
Well-Known Member
Doesn't a UPS captain typically make around 280-300k a year? I don't think those are the numbers anyone is reaching for.
Update: UPS flight dispatchers are asking to be paid like counterparts at Delta, American
- Thread starter dxbear
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Mongo
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! So as I said in my post you don’t believe that your job is worth half of a Captains pay with the same benefits? That’s awesome if you got to a major with no college degree and a $5000 Dispatcher license. Many of the Dispatchers I work with also have several flight ratings. So let’s see, you went to an Aviation college, received at least a Private license. A college degree and then Dispatch school. Follow that up with 3-5 years at a minor and then you finally make it to a major. 15-20 year top of scale climb with longevity bonuses to look forward to as well. The true differences between Pilot CBAs and Dispatcher CBAs is the attitude. Do you think they got to those numbers by the grace of the companies that they work for? Absolutely not! It was fought in the negotiation room with an unwavering commitment to grow their profession. Sounds like we got a lot of work to do within our own peer group.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
If you read Mongos post again, you’ll see he didn’t say we should make AS MUCH as a mainline captain. Not really sure what you’re arguing here. And honestly not sure what you’re trying to prove with your repeated arguments on what a contract is. Anyone who’s in a union here knows this.
The bottom line is that we are seeking a contract that is at the very minimum in line with industry standard.
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womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
Kinda funny to read comments here from a select few non UPS people, speculating about what we have and what we don’t have and then assert what we “deserve” based on said assumptions.
All this “speculation” about who we are, what we do, what we want, what we deserve is giving me a headache. Thank God we’ve got the negotiating team we do, because if a few of you here commenting were fighting for us to get a fair contract, we’d be sunk.
Thanks again to all those who support us and for seeing the bigger picture here. We know you get it and we appreciate the solidarity.
Oh, and in case you didn’t hear, 1Q earnings announced. Revenue increased 10% to 17.1 BILLION. None of which we’ve seen. Our top of scale folks haven’t had a raise for over 4 years.
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All this “speculation” about who we are, what we do, what we want, what we deserve is giving me a headache. Thank God we’ve got the negotiating team we do, because if a few of you here commenting were fighting for us to get a fair contract, we’d be sunk.
Thanks again to all those who support us and for seeing the bigger picture here. We know you get it and we appreciate the solidarity.
Oh, and in case you didn’t hear, 1Q earnings announced. Revenue increased 10% to 17.1 BILLION. None of which we’ve seen. Our top of scale folks haven’t had a raise for over 4 years.
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CPZ9900
Well-Known Member
I mean that’s kind of what top of scale means.
Should work on being a bit more humble rather than hostile.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
Lol... definitely not hostile. That’s a perception issue. And you of all people preaching humble? Haha...thanks for the giggle. 
You’re missing the point that the top of scale these folks have been at without a raise for four+ years has to do with us being in negotiations for a new contract. We should’ve had a new contract 3+ years ago and they’d have had their raise. I think you’ve been at your shop since before the current contract haven’t you? But then again, it didn’t affect you since you are still getting annual raises. I’m not sure how long negotiations took for you guys but I’m sure if folks there were sitting 3, 4, or 5 years without a raise, they wouldn’t be too happy about it either. All the while watching the rest of the industry get new contracts with substantial increases in overall compensation and benefits.
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You’re missing the point that the top of scale these folks have been at without a raise for four+ years has to do with us being in negotiations for a new contract. We should’ve had a new contract 3+ years ago and they’d have had their raise. I think you’ve been at your shop since before the current contract haven’t you? But then again, it didn’t affect you since you are still getting annual raises. I’m not sure how long negotiations took for you guys but I’m sure if folks there were sitting 3, 4, or 5 years without a raise, they wouldn’t be too happy about it either. All the while watching the rest of the industry get new contracts with substantial increases in overall compensation and benefits.
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pljenkins
Resident Knucklehead
Okay, I can't get through any more of this. Got to page 2 and my head nearly exploded. Here's some facts for you kids here...
Anyone who thinks a UPS dispatcher doesn't do EXACTLY the same job as a dispatcher at United, American, or Delta is, and I'm sorry but it's true, an idiot. Anyone who thinks the contents of the fuselage should dictate the level of pay a dispatcher gets is, similarly, an idiot. There is precisely ZERO difference between the level of responsibility a dispatcher has at UPS vs United. None. Zippo. Nada. Our job is to dispatch airplanes. If I you think a UPS dispatcher ever sits in his chair and goes, "man, that route looks pretty sketchy but hey, f@$k it, it's just a bunch of boxes" you are sorely mistaken, son. Whether there's 2 people on the airplane or 280 people on the airplane, a dispatcher sitting in his chair is going to dispatch that flight with the same level of care, responsibility, and professionalism no matter WHAT is painted on the side of the machine. Why? Because it's our job, and we CARE about our jobs.
UPS is a career level organization, like any major airline. The bar is set pretty high to get into UPS, as it SHOULD be. You're pushing big airplanes around the world. To pay them substandard wages in comparison to their brothers and sisters in Dallas, Chicago and Atlanta simply because the things in the cabin aren't people is a completely irrelevant position.
Oh, and for God's sakes UPS guys, demand that your pension be rolled into a 401K plan and matched 1 to 1 to at LEAST 10% of wages. If the whole post 9/11 pension raid debacle was any indication, I would be very weary on counting on that cash to be there when I retire. The days of trustworthy companies making good on pensions are over. To the bankruptcy courts, it's nothing more than a big savings account full of sweet, sweet cheddar that belongs to the creditors, of which you ain't one of.
Anyone who thinks a UPS dispatcher doesn't do EXACTLY the same job as a dispatcher at United, American, or Delta is, and I'm sorry but it's true, an idiot. Anyone who thinks the contents of the fuselage should dictate the level of pay a dispatcher gets is, similarly, an idiot. There is precisely ZERO difference between the level of responsibility a dispatcher has at UPS vs United. None. Zippo. Nada. Our job is to dispatch airplanes. If I you think a UPS dispatcher ever sits in his chair and goes, "man, that route looks pretty sketchy but hey, f@$k it, it's just a bunch of boxes" you are sorely mistaken, son. Whether there's 2 people on the airplane or 280 people on the airplane, a dispatcher sitting in his chair is going to dispatch that flight with the same level of care, responsibility, and professionalism no matter WHAT is painted on the side of the machine. Why? Because it's our job, and we CARE about our jobs.
UPS is a career level organization, like any major airline. The bar is set pretty high to get into UPS, as it SHOULD be. You're pushing big airplanes around the world. To pay them substandard wages in comparison to their brothers and sisters in Dallas, Chicago and Atlanta simply because the things in the cabin aren't people is a completely irrelevant position.
Oh, and for God's sakes UPS guys, demand that your pension be rolled into a 401K plan and matched 1 to 1 to at LEAST 10% of wages. If the whole post 9/11 pension raid debacle was any indication, I would be very weary on counting on that cash to be there when I retire. The days of trustworthy companies making good on pensions are over. To the bankruptcy courts, it's nothing more than a big savings account full of sweet, sweet cheddar that belongs to the creditors, of which you ain't one of.
CRJInTheHeartOfTexas
бог благословит мать россия
Quiet children! Dispatch God has spoken!
Altimeter
Well-Known Member
Are you guys really so sensitive to the fact that there might be a difference in our jobs, not in function, responsibility, or professionalism? How often at UPS do you connect a flight to Medlink/POC? Do you see passengers tweets about turbulence or videos of Doctors getting ripped off of a flight? Our jobs are only slightly different because our companies do different things. Not that one is better or inferior, each has their own complex nuisance, culture, procedures, etc. They can be different without infringing upon our duty and responsibility. Like someone pointed out earlier about some of the crazy thing UPS ships, and weird airports they fly into. You can bring up good points without coming in outta nowhere laying the law down on “some kids”. You’re last point is good, even though it’s prefaced with grade school language, son.
Is it not ok to have an opinion (and it’s not an opinion that puts anyone down)? Is it not ok to have a view and talk about it instead of just having ones feelings hurt? I’m for certain not right about plenty of things, and there’s always room to learn.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I’m like as far as you can be from being a dispatcher, but from the outside looking in imma guess that since many (most?) of the UPS DXers came from regional land where they got to deal with all the pax shenanigans, they’re probably in a better position than anyone to compare the challenges of pax vs. cargo ops, so if they say it’s the same difficulty level, I’m more inclined to believe them than the rando who’s most likely a UPS management plant.
Altimeter
Well-Known Member
That would be hilarious. I conceded a while ago that one is not more complex than the other. That’s not the point.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
The point is that you’ve been constantly comparing and contrasting your job vs our job and your arguments have nothing to do with anything. You have repeatedly admitted you don’t know squat about UPS (our contract, pay, pension, workload, history, and all the many, many issues at hand) yet you repeatedly argue what you do vs. what we do. Again, not sure what you’re trying to argue or accomplish here.
Now Roger Roger has a point, and although you think it might be hilarious, you certainly fit the bill.
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Stranger Things
Active Member
The front end job is the same. You are jointly responsible with the captain etc etc. same FAR’s. Same training and certification process. The difference comes in what happens south of the cockpit door. Passenger airline dispatchers get calls about sick passengers. Cargo dispatchers may get calls about something loaded on the airplane. In negotiations, passenger or cargo, you are negotiating what goes on north of that door.
In other words, we are equal. Good luck UPS. Raise the bar if you can.
In other words, we are equal. Good luck UPS. Raise the bar if you can.
Altimeter
Well-Known Member
Since it’s a win win for me anyways, I hope whatever happens! Good luck!
Just playing along here shaking my head that anyone AT A MAJOR airline would not be supporting a unionized work group AT A MAJOR airline, or any other airline regardless, to get the absolute best contract they can. That's the game, like it or not. Each place works and negotiates to set the bar a little higher so the next airline working group can do the same. It hasn't been about what any particular working group is "worth" for many years. Bankruptcies have set back the scales and its time to advance the pay when times are good.
The Railway Labor Act is a sham that these companies use in a nearly abusive way regarding union contracts. UPS is right now flogging their work groups with it.
Altimeter, you specifically, continue to hold your head high and look down your nose at the freighters because of their 'boxes'. When you cancel a flight, you affect up to 300 people roughly. When UPS cancels a flight, it can affect up to 40,000 customers. No pressure there? And yes, there are tweets and videos about the service provided by the freighters also.
I believe this thread was about UPS dispatchers asking for equal or better compensation. As far as a pension or profit sharing go, do the groups with a profit sharing count that as part of their compensation? I don't believe you do since it's here today and maybe gone tomorrow. The same rule applies to the pension. Nobody working at UPS sees a penny of that until they retire. Therefore, a few work rules and the direct hourly wage compensation becomes the primary goal. UPS dispatchers are some 20+% behind the industry. I don't know a single pilot group that would accept that and not be fighting for equal or better on their contract. The financials at UPS support the fact they can afford industry standard or better for their dispatchers and every other work group for that matter. Part of being in a good union is UNITY. You're not being much of a team member when you don't think another group is 'worth' industry standard pay.
UPS won't be going bankrupt any time soon so the pension doesn't need to be negotiated out of the contract. If it does, I'm sure they'll make it very expensive to buyout.
Good luck UPS. Its a fight. And good luck to any other group negotiating. Its an ugly, tough process. Stay strong. It's worth it in the end.
The Railway Labor Act is a sham that these companies use in a nearly abusive way regarding union contracts. UPS is right now flogging their work groups with it.
Altimeter, you specifically, continue to hold your head high and look down your nose at the freighters because of their 'boxes'. When you cancel a flight, you affect up to 300 people roughly. When UPS cancels a flight, it can affect up to 40,000 customers. No pressure there? And yes, there are tweets and videos about the service provided by the freighters also.
I believe this thread was about UPS dispatchers asking for equal or better compensation. As far as a pension or profit sharing go, do the groups with a profit sharing count that as part of their compensation? I don't believe you do since it's here today and maybe gone tomorrow. The same rule applies to the pension. Nobody working at UPS sees a penny of that until they retire. Therefore, a few work rules and the direct hourly wage compensation becomes the primary goal. UPS dispatchers are some 20+% behind the industry. I don't know a single pilot group that would accept that and not be fighting for equal or better on their contract. The financials at UPS support the fact they can afford industry standard or better for their dispatchers and every other work group for that matter. Part of being in a good union is UNITY. You're not being much of a team member when you don't think another group is 'worth' industry standard pay.
UPS won't be going bankrupt any time soon so the pension doesn't need to be negotiated out of the contract. If it does, I'm sure they'll make it very expensive to buyout.
Good luck UPS. Its a fight. And good luck to any other group negotiating. Its an ugly, tough process. Stay strong. It's worth it in the end.
dispatchguy
Well-Known Member
I wish my colleagues in brown the absolute best, and an industry leading contract.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
What is the value of a pension plan in the overall compensation package? UPS doesn't pay as much as UAL (or whoever). But UAL doesn't pay or supply a pension plan. So when you compare the big pictures of each carrier's respective compensation package, is UPS really behind the others? Or is everyone looking at the hourly rates and having their heads explode?
