Update: UPS flight dispatchers are asking to be paid like counterparts at Delta, American

who'swho said:
So much for the music video making a difference... :(
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I think had Altimeter come on here wanting to have a conversation, that would’ve gone over really well, but he came out swinging with some pretty offensive and misinformed statements. It’s one thing to have a conversation here in an open forum; quite another to spew trash at his peers.

I’ve been on this forum for a long time and personally know many of the dispatchers here. Over the years there’s been support, advice, jokes, education, networking and much more between us all. I’ve always been grateful to them and have taken it upon myself to pay it forward and help other members when they reach out to me. Now I’ve also been on here long enough to see the ones who seem to thrive on controversy. And over the years, I’ve ignored most. But when someone makes ignorant and offensive statements on such an important topic, they are going to get met with some backlash. And I am absolutely not the only one to try to correct him along the way.

Who’s Who... I’d love nothing more than for everyone to support one another, be a great and positive resource for one another and for everyone to get along. But I know you’ve also seen some just aren’t on here for that.


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This may come across as kind of brutal, but I would estimate that only about 10 percent of the dispatchers in the airline that I work for are actually really good. There are a number of reasons for this, but compensation (QOL) was just not attracting enough top talent and it is noticeable to those who real put in the effort to help the company be profitable. There are plenty of qualified applicants and have been for as long as I can remember, but to be profitable consistently, a company needs more than just qualified. I am unsure how seriously management has looked at this in the past, but they have to be seeing it now.

Prior to our last contract, I was training one of our new hires and was very impressed with his ability and effort he put in once he upgraded, he was one of the 10 percent IMO. A short time later, he left to take the same position with another airline. This was a direct result of not compensating the dispatchers appropriately at our airline and it pissed me off as that should never happen.
 
faceman said:
This may come across as kind of brutal, but I would estimate that only about 10 percent of the dispatchers in the airline that I work for are actually really good. There are a number of reasons for this, but compensation (QOL) was just not attracting enough top talent and it is noticeable to those who real put in the effort to help the company be profitable. There are plenty of qualified applicants and have been for as long as I can remember, but to be profitable consistently, a company needs more than just qualified. I am unsure how seriously management has looked at this in the past, but they have to be seeing it now.

Prior to our last contract, I was training one of our new hires and was very impressed with his ability and effort he put in once he upgraded, he was one of the 10 percent IMO. A short time later, he left to take the same position with another airline. This was a direct result of not compensating the dispatchers appropriately at our airline and it pissed me off as that should never happen.
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It’s a sad thing when a company doesn’t appropriately compensate its employees to retain quality, motivated people to further the growth and success of the company. I think UPS is about to see what happens in this very instance when we lose some who are using us as a stepping stone, rather than a destination. I can’t honestly believe it’s turned into that. Very sad indeed...


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Is being a trainer mandatory? Maybe everyone should stop training new hires. Not sure if that's even possible. But I'm just noticing how ups is hiring. Who's doing the training? It's maybe coming down to that i think. It's unfortunate how long this is dragging on. Wishing you guys success.
 
F9DXER said:
So, can we have that group hug now? :biggrin:
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keep-calm-and-hug-it-out-23.jpg
 
As far as Womanpilots claim I know how a fair contract comes to fruition. No, I don't, the only contract I ever voted in was a TWU contract that ended up getting wonderful dispatcher furloughed while saving jobs for Sector Managers that don't even have a license, and it makes me sick just thinking about how bad that company duped us and how I played a role in possibly ruing some young hopeful careers. We thought the only way to save some of our jobs was to vote that contract in, the TWU president pretty much told us it is what it, you're not going to get anything better. If I had known what I do now I would have rallied against that contract to protect actual dispatchers.[/QUOTE]



Well this explains everything. Sorry, I mistook you for someone who had experience with union negotiations at a major airline by the way you so arrogantly bombarded this thread with your offensive opinions, which are highly flawed, lacking actual experience and facts regarding our situation. Thanks for clarifying that you have no idea what you are talking about.

To be honest, reading your last post, all I saw was someone who’s bitter and angry at their experience in this industry. You’ve made it clear you aren’t a supporter of all major airlines gaining equality with respect to our contracts.

If you work where I think you do, I’d highly advise getting to know the in’s and out’s of your contract and how, through negotiating, unity and unwavering commitment, a contract comes to fruition. You’ll be where we are one day and trust me, you’ll wish you’d educated yourself. And for your union’s sake, I hope and pray you learn to support your peers for the greater good.

#onehundredpercent #unity



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
Dang it. Messed up a post.
Take 2.

I am not bitter. I have the best job the industry offers (IMO (which I’m not sure I’m allowed to have)). I thought this was a place we could talk freely about the industry. If there’s a thought or reasoning you don’t agree with, why attack the person and not their thought? You never once challenged with good points. You crossed your arms, stomped your feet, yelling we are a major!
Other posters brought up good points without calling anyone an idiot, and those good points that were maid helped me understand. It’s ok to be wrong. It’s ok to risk being wrong. I don’t believe it’s ok to attack some and not their idea.

I wish nothing for the best for you guys. And I’m not sure how many times I have to admit fault, or that I may be wrong. But the temper tantrums and actual trash spewing comes when it’s personal. Try, This is why I think you’re thought/views are incorrect and here are my reasons... it idiot, stooge, and whatever else. I tried to be polite in how I brought something up, sometimes a bit snarky, and I’m sort of an • In general. It’s just the level of no chill is unreal.

I mean I even brought up some math and it was looked over. No one said, hey your math is wrong and here’s the corrections. Is math rude and trash talk?
 
I have no problem with Altimeter on here.. I have a problem with people attacking those who have a difference of opinion.
His questions are completely fair and with no access to the UPS dispatcher contract we are left only to assume what they compare too. With that said companies dont care what you THINK YOU DESERVE as far as compensation is concerned.
How much money the company makes is not relevant to what you are worth to the company. You are labor and a cost to the company period.
 
Altimeter said:
As far as Womanpilots claim I know how a fair contract comes to fruition. No, I don't, the only contract I ever voted in was a TWU contract that ended up getting wonderful dispatcher furloughed while saving jobs for Sector Managers that don't even have a license, and it makes me sick just thinking about how bad that company duped us and how I played a role in possibly ruing some young hopeful careers. We thought the only way to save some of our jobs was to vote that contract in, the TWU president pretty much told us it is what it, you're not going to get anything better. If I had known what I do now I would have rallied against that contract to protect actual dispatchers.
Click to expand...



Well this explains everything. Sorry, I mistook you for someone who had experience with union negotiations at a major airline by the way you so arrogantly bombarded this thread with your offensive opinions, which are highly flawed, lacking actual experience and facts regarding our situation. Thanks for clarifying that you have no idea what you are talking about.

To be honest, reading your last post, all I saw was someone who’s bitter and angry at their experience in this industry. You’ve made it clear you aren’t a supporter of all major airlines gaining equality with respect to our contracts.

If you work where I think you do, I’d highly advise getting to know the in’s and out’s of your contract and how, through negotiating, unity and unwavering commitment, a contract comes to fruition. You’ll be where we are one day and trust me, you’ll wish you’d educated yourself. And for your union’s sake, I hope and pray you learn to support your peers for the greater good.

#onehundredpercent #unity



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
Dang it. Messed up a post.
Take 2.

I am not bitter. I have the best job the industry offers (IMO (which I’m not sure I’m allowed to have)). I thought this was a place we could talk freely about the industry. If there’s a thought or reasoning you don’t agree with, why attack the person and not their thought? You never once challenged with good points. You crossed your arms, stomped your feet, yelling we are a major!
Other posters brought up good points without calling anyone an idiot, and those good points that were maid helped me understand. It’s ok to be wrong. It’s ok to risk being wrong. I don’t believe it’s ok to attack some and not their idea.

I wish nothing for the best for you guys. And I’m not sure how many times I have to admit fault, or that I may be wrong. But the temper tantrums and actual trash spewing comes when it’s personal. Try, This is why I think you’re thought/views are incorrect and here are my reasons... it idiot, stooge, and whatever else. I tried to be polite in how I brought something up, sometimes a bit snarky, and I’m sort of an • In general. It’s just the level of no chill is unreal.

I mean I even brought up some math and it was looked over. No one said, hey your math is wrong and here’s the corrections. Is math rude and trash talk?[/QUOTE]



You’ve apparently seen what you wanted to see in my replies and posts, rather than what I’ve actually said. Seems you’re in some kind of denial or simply lack the ability to be introspective here. You’ve said you tried to be polite, but do you really believe that? If that were true, why would so many have replied to you as they have?

I have not been able to give you the detail you seek because I can’t. I’d think you would know that. I really believe you have a perception issue (at least when it comes to me - me crossing arms, stomping and yelling lol) and also lack the ability to see how your words have come across here. I mean, you actually wanted and expected respectful responses after some of the content in your posts? Really?

Many have raised good points and responded to you in ways I could not for reasons you should be able to understand. But you don’t seem to reply much to them. Several have come down on you but you only seem to reply to me. If you go back to the very beginning, you’ll see many replies from members challenging your posts and offering up many solid points to learn from. They have put things out there I have been unable to. Why have you decided that I am the one who should be giving you all the answers in which you claim to seek? And your questions usually come after some ignorant slam. If you want to be an admitted “• in general”, be prepared for people to react.

It’s definitely great to have discussions. But to be honest, you turned many people off because you didn’t approach this as a discussion in which you were trying to learn about any of this. You started with some pretty aggressive and offensive words.

I agree with you that it’s also totally cool to be wrong about stuff. But again, after you concede to being wrong about one thing, you proceed to argue another misinformed idea. It’s not like you’re asking first or have the knowledge to back it up. You just spew crap. How do you think people will respond to that?

Thanks for wishing us the best. Took a long time to get to that. We are peers and should support each other, even in this case when you don’t have the full picture. I’m sorry I can’t supply you with that but hope that you can continue “wishing us the best” regardless.


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Atlanta said:
I have no problem with Altimeter on here.. I have a problem with people attacking those who have a difference of opinion.
His questions are completely fair and with no access to the UPS dispatcher contract we are left only to assume what they compare too. With that said companies dont care what you THINK YOU DESERVE as far as compensation is concerned.
How much money the company makes is not relevant to what you are worth to the company. You are labor and a cost to the company period.
Click to expand...

I agree. His questions are fair. It’s the offensive assumptions that were spewed that were completely unfounded and disrespectful. I’m just the bad guy for calling him on a lot of the comments that were unnecessary and wrong from a factual standpoint.

And a lot of his questions have been answered, both directly and indirectly.


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womanpilot73 said:
I guess I shouldn’t have quoted that because the format is screwed up. Oops.


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I’m just going to reply to Altimeter here because the format on that last post was pretty messed up.

You’ve apparently seen what you wanted to see in my replies and posts, rather than what I’ve actually said. Seems you’re in some kind of denial or simply lack the ability to be introspective here. You’ve said you tried to be polite, but do you really believe that? If that were true, why would so many have replied to you as they have?

I have not been able to give you the detail you seek because I can’t. I’d think you would know that. I really believe you have a perception issue (at least when it comes to me - me crossing arms, stomping and yelling lol) and also lack the ability to see how your words have come across here. I mean, you actually wanted and expected respectful responses after some of the content in your posts? Really?

Many have raised good points and responded to you in ways I could not for reasons you should be able to understand. But you don’t seem to reply much to them. Several have come down on you but you only seem to reply to me. If you go back to the very beginning, you’ll see many replies from members challenging your posts and offering up many solid points to learn from. They have put things out there I have been unable to. Why have you decided that I am the one who should be giving you all the answers in which you claim to seek? And your questions usually come after some ignorant slam. If you want to be an admitted “• in general”, be prepared for people to react.

It’s definitely great to have discussions. But to be honest, you turned many people off because you didn’t approach this as a discussion in which you were trying to learn about any of this. You started with some pretty aggressive and offensive words.

I agree with you that it’s also totally cool to be wrong about stuff. But again, after you concede to being wrong about one thing, you proceed to argue another misinformed idea. It’s not like you’re asking first or have the knowledge to back it up. You just spew crap. How do you think people will respond to that?

Thanks for wishing us the best. Took a long time to get to that. We are peers and should support each other, even in this case when you don’t have the full picture. I’m sorry I can’t supply you with that but hope that you can continue “wishing us the best” regardless.


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Atlanta said:
I have no problem with Altimeter on here.. I have a problem with people attacking those who have a difference of opinion.
His questions are completely fair and with no access to the UPS dispatcher contract we are left only to assume what they compare too. With that said companies dont care what you THINK YOU DESERVE as far as compensation is concerned.
How much money the company makes is not relevant to what you are worth to the company. You are labor and a cost to the company period.
Click to expand...

ATL,
I have copies of every contract in the industry. If you truly wanted to know what is out there speak to your Union Representative I am sure that they can more than enlighten you on the industry. I would also recommend reading as many Pilot contracts as possible as well as the benefits should apply to Dispatch as well. I completely concur that a Dispatcher would be hard pressed to demand 400k a year but at least 50-60% of that pay should not be off of the table. We as a work group have to push to make financial strides in our industry as our companies will not be doing it because they are good corporate citizens. You mentioned before that a Dispatcher group must show their worth to a company to prove that they are a valued piece of the team. I would argue that the company must put in the time to create an environment and a culture to create the group to be a valued member of the airline. We have carriers out there that absolutely see the value in their groups as well as others that only see them as as a cost center. That my friend is an extremely poor example of bad management. A quality dispatch group is created by a great team of management that wants to make a difference for their company. Poor leadership creates poor employees. Want the best in the business then start hiring the best. Ramper with no degree and a fresh license, well you get what you pay for...
 
Mongo said:
ATL,
I have copies of every contract in the industry. If you truly wanted to know what is out there speak to your Union Representative I am sure that they can more than enlighten you on the industry. I would also recommend reading as many Pilot contracts as possible as well as the benefits should apply to Dispatch as well. I completely concur that a Dispatcher would be hard pressed to demand 400k a year but at least 50-60% of that pay should not be off of the table. We as a work group have to push to make financial strides in our industry as our companies will not be doing it because they are good corporate citizens. You mentioned before that a Dispatcher group must show their worth to a company to prove that they are a valued piece of the team. I would argue that the company must put in the time to create an environment and a culture to create the group to be a valued member of the airline. We have carriers out there that absolutely see the value in their groups as well as others that only see them as as a cost center. That my friend is an extremely poor example of bad management. A quality dispatch group is created by a great team of management that wants to make a difference for their company. Poor leadership creates poor employees. Want the best in the business then start hiring the best. Ramper with no degree and a fresh license, well you get what you pay for...
Click to expand...

Mongo... I understand your point, but a truly good employee is that.. regardless of management. We are professionals and should always work and behave as such regardless of the environment surrounding us.

Look I am not ignorant of the fact that a better UPS contract could result in a better contract for me down the road therefore I support that. I have learned after many years in this industry and others that getting emotionally caught up in this stuff does no good... We have to understand its business not personal. Companies want to control their costs.. We want to increase our wages and QOL.. Those two collide and sometimes the end result isnt pretty.
 
Unrelated to dispatching, but related to UPS. Would be nice if UPS first year pilot pay were better.....

Good on the dispatch staff for attempting to better their overall employment. Hopefully it pays off.
 
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