Update: UPS flight dispatchers are asking to be paid like counterparts at Delta, American

Dart_8992

Well-Known Member
So if someone in the back is having a heart attack you don’t worry about it?
Do you think medical issues don't happen on cargo planes? There are still people on these aircraft as well. Granted, not as many so the chances are reduced, but the chances of a Cargo fire are also greatly increased sooooo....
 

A1TAPE

Well-Known Member
You trade Hazmat for passenger issues that’s it. Believe me, you’d rather deal with 100 passenger diversions due to whatever, than even one due to a legitimate Hazmat issue.

Do you know the history on why you can’t take a Lithium Ion battery on a passenger flight?
UPS 6?
 

Mainline_or_bust

Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
Correct that was probably 95% of the reason.

My overall point is that while passenger medical diversions happen it’s part of life and the safety of everyone else isn’t effected.
The uncommon yet serious Hazmat issue has the capability to bring down a 747 over populated areas. Let’s not forget cargo carriers are able to fly Class 1.1 so now the burning plane is a flying, burning bomb. Please don’t marginalize cargo or passenger dispatchers, we each have our niche in a 99% similar capacity.
 

A320guy

Well-Known Member
Cargo dispatching is easier on a “status quo day” no question about that. PAX dispatching deals with PAX issues, Tarmac delays, light chop etc... and that happens regularly. cargo dispatching issues tend to be all about the mission without trivial issues. However when there is an issue its serious like a pilot having a heart attack, extreme turb, not a drunk PAX on from vegas flight trying to fight a FA. Both are stressful when its a real emergency but PAX dispatchers definitely deal with trivial issues that can make your day stressful more frequently. When cargo flight gets in a GDP the crew sits until their duty runs out. U dont have to remind them to feed to boxes and follow a checklist.
 

A320guy

Well-Known Member
Cargo dispatching is easier on the usual day to day level no question about that. PAX dispatching can
Cargo dispatching is easier on a “status quo day” no question about that. PAX dispatching deals with PAX issues, Tarmac delays, light chop etc... and that happens regularly. cargo dispatching issues tend to be all about the mission without trivial issues. However when there is an issue its serious like a pilot having a heart attack, extreme turb, not a drunk PAX on from vegas flight trying to fight a FA. Both are stressful when its a real emergency but PAX dispatchers definitely deal with trivial issues that can make your day stressful more frequently. When cargo flight gets in a GDP the crew sits until their duty runs out. U dont have to remind them to feed to boxes and follow a checklist.
and yes cargo flights have perishables but its not on every flight.
 

Squirrel

Well-Known Member
I'm just wondering those saying Cagro dispatchimg is easier have ever actually dispatched at a cargo airline?

Some of my busiest days have been at Cargo airlines during Christmas time. You are going nonstop for 10 hours straight.
 

Avolar

Well-Known Member
Those that are saying Cargo dispatching are saying On a Status Quo Day, or on a day to day ops. Yes cargo can go nonstop for 10 hours straight, but if it is just during a certain time. Point getting across is that with pax you have them flying everyday so can add the craziness.
 

Dart_8992

Well-Known Member
So do people just think that on a "Status Quo Day" (Wtf even is that) Cargo dispatchers have nothing to do? The issues are different, doesn't mean there aren't issues. I genuinely believe anyone naive enough to make this assumption has never worked cargo. It's a common thing I see on this forum where people somehow equate cargo operations to be less Prestigious or something than pax? It really makes no sense to me.

You guys are right though. Cargo doesn't really care about GDPs, but that's because the majority of the operations are overnight. The things Cargo airlines do contend with that PAX really doesn't though is a pretty long list, but lets just name a few. Every airport in the country (excluding the major cargo hubs) do their runway and facility closures in the middle of the night. CARGO dispatchers frequently dispatch into these airports with their big runways closed, and so they are landing some of the biggest airplanes in the world on some of the smaller runways. Add to this the fact that CARGO planes tend to arrive at their destinations right at dawn when FOG is at it's worse, and now you have a large aircraft (like a B767) planned to land on a 6000' runway that only has a VOR approach and visibility just dropped down to 1/4sm after you depart. I'm not saying this never happens to pax carriers. I'm just saying it is less of a concern for PAX carriers in the same way that turbulence is less of a concern for cargo carriers. This scenario is an extremely common one for cargo carriers. It happens basically every night. Even when there aren't facility closures, they are always arriving right when fog is at its worse.

It's just silly to assume that Cargo somehow has it easy. If you genuinely believe that, it's because you have never worked a cargo operation. Hell working in the middle of the night is one of the biggest challenges cargo faces in of itself. Passenger nor cargo have it easier. They have different issues to contend with, but neither has it easier than the other. The jobs are the same, but different. It's silly to come to any other conclusion.
 

A320guy

Well-Known Member
I work both. Cargo was easier and didnt deal with PAX everyday madness. The job is exactly to same in terms of 121 rules you are governed by and no i dont think PAX is more prestigious, Like i said when you get a medic call on a cargo flight its for real issues and you dont have to listen for 30mins to a phone patch which you knew the Doctor will eventually get on a call just to say , keep his feet up, give him water and continue to destination. This happens everyday in PAX and thats why PAX is more tedious period...
 

Burrito

I'll ask the stupid questions
So do people just think that on a "Status Quo Day" (Wtf even is that) Cargo dispatchers have nothing to do? The issues are different, doesn't mean there aren't issues. I genuinely believe anyone naive enough to make this assumption has never worked cargo. It's a common thing I see on this forum where people somehow equate cargo operations to be less Prestigious or something than pax? It really makes no sense to me.

You guys are right though. Cargo doesn't really care about GDPs, but that's because the majority of the operations are overnight. The things Cargo airlines do contend with that PAX really doesn't though is a pretty long list, but lets just name a few. Every airport in the country (excluding the major cargo hubs) do their runway and facility closures in the middle of the night. CARGO dispatchers frequently dispatch into these airports with their big runways closed, and so they are landing some of the biggest airplanes in the world on some of the smaller runways. Add to this the fact that CARGO planes tend to arrive at their destinations right at dawn when FOG is at it's worse, and now you have a large aircraft (like a B767) planned to land on a 6000' runway that only has a VOR approach and visibility just dropped down to 1/4sm after you depart. I'm not saying this never happens to pax carriers. I'm just saying it is less of a concern for PAX carriers in the same way that turbulence is less of a concern for cargo carriers. This scenario is an extremely common one for cargo carriers. It happens basically every night. Even when there aren't facility closures, they are always arriving right when fog is at its worse.

It's just silly to assume that Cargo somehow has it easy. If you genuinely believe that, it's because you have never worked a cargo operation. Hell working in the middle of the night is one of the biggest challenges cargo faces in of itself. Passenger nor cargo have it easier. They have different issues to contend with, but neither has it easier than the other. The jobs are the same, but different. It's silly to come to any other conclusion.
Why are we all fighting like it's different at all? We're all watching, we're all guardians for the guys driving. Get off the ground safely, get back on the ground safely, and hand the plane off in a better condition than you got it. Did no one here do flight following for the mom and pop shops flying planes built before you were even a concept? This industry is awesome. Don't be a jerk.

Like it was pointed out -- sometimes the field's got some 6000' strip with a VOR approach that just vanished at 7:04AM because of the fog. Cool. Hope you packed enough for a T/O ALTN just to play pessimist -- and hope the ACARS works so you can fire off that field info if you needed to.

If you guys want, here's this for you to compare passengers to boxes. I'll let you all change it appropriately. I have to go read more MELs and figure out why I don't hate the Airbus yet.

97652792ef4ba4ca1feafaa2b450ba18.gif
 

Mainline_or_bust

Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
I work both. Cargo was easier and didnt deal with PAX everyday madness. The job is exactly to same in terms of 121 rules you are governed by and no i dont think PAX is more prestigious, Like i said when you get a medic call on a cargo flight its for real issues and you dont have to listen for 30mins to a phone patch which you knew the Doctor will eventually get on a call just to say , keep his feet up, give him water and continue to destination. This happens everyday in PAX and thats why PAX is more tedious period...
I’m not sure where you work but in my experience there’s only a slight difference in the amount of so called tedious BS. For example passenger flights don’t divert nearly as often to to rescue payload. Thin on fuel, A/C at FL270 in descent but we just had a plane break in PIT. Can he turn around, fly around that weather and make it? So now stop everything you’re doing start stressing on getting FOB a reasonable route etc. etc. etc.

That doesn’t happen in PAX. Like maybe once per year you might do that as an airline. We do that multiple times per night. It’s not like we’re twiddling thumbs.

How about these gems:

“We need you to route a flight from Stockholm to CAE carrying nuclear reactor rods. But because of the ridiculous permitting issues we’ve run into we need you to avoid the UK, Ireland, Denmark, Germany and Canada. You need to avoid all land mass by 12NM so I suggest pulling up google maps looking for islands. They say they’ll fine the hell out of us if we overfly their lands. Of course EuroControl needs to validate it.”

“We have a problem, we just coasted out from Portugal and our flight is over burning 9.0 and increasing. Right now the FMC says we don’t have enough fuel to make Port of Spain. Oh now the loadmaster is saying he gave the payload in KG not LBS. Guess we just took off 40.0 above maximum structural takeoff weight.”

I can go on and on with actual examples of stuff that you can’t conceive how difficult and tedious cargo can get. This is exactly a rabbit season duck season argument. Like I’ve said, it’s 99% the same, just different sides of the same coin.

Side note: being that a cargo carrier is the highest paid dispatch group for the foreseeable future, any arguments to the contrary that they’re the same isn’t helping to increase anyone’s wage; rather the opposite actually.
 

A320guy

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure where you work but in my experience there’s only a slight difference in the amount of so called tedious BS. For example passenger flights don’t divert nearly as often to to rescue payload. Thin on fuel, A/C at FL270 in descent but we just had a plane break in PIT. Can he turn around, fly around that weather and make it? So now stop everything you’re doing start stressing on getting FOB a reasonable route etc. etc. etc.

That doesn’t happen in PAX. Like maybe once per year you might do that as an airline. We do that multiple times per night. It’s not like we’re twiddling thumbs.

How about these gems:

“We need you to route a flight from Stockholm to CAE carrying nuclear reactor rods. But because of the ridiculous permitting issues we’ve run into we need you to avoid the UK, Ireland, Denmark, Germany and Canada. You need to avoid all land mass by 12NM so I suggest pulling up google maps looking for islands. They say they’ll fine the hell out of us if we overfly their lands. Of course EuroControl needs to validate it.”

“We have a problem, we just coasted out from Portugal and our flight is over burning 9.0 and increasing. Right now the FMC says we don’t have enough fuel to make Port of Spain. Oh now the loadmaster is saying he gave the payload in KG not LBS. Guess we just took off 40.0 above maximum structural takeoff weight.”

I can go on and on with actual examples of stuff that you can’t conceive how difficult and tedious cargo can get. This is exactly a rabbit season duck season argument. Like I’ve said, it’s 99% the same, just different sides of the same coin.

Side note: being that a cargo carrier is the highest paid dispatch group for the foreseeable future, any arguments to the contrary that they’re the same isn’t helping to increase anyone’s wage; rather the opposite actually.
First of all no one is talking about pay here and pay is not everything as when we all majors PAX and cargo you will eventually make 160K plus. But to your point all the things you just mention (minus pay) sounds like a real issues and not diverting unnecessarily for a drunk pax.

Side note. pay scales change frequently and just like PAX is having a hard time the same thing can happen and has happened at cargo.
 

A320guy

Well-Known Member
Who cares? Lol... Seriously, each has their own unique complexities that can make each job crazy on some shifts. It’s not uncommon for any one of us to have our hair on fire some shifts. This argument is silly.


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Agreed im just saying in my experience cargo dont deal with PAX issues which takes up alot of time in a shift. PAX planes also deal with cargo/hazmat issues not as much as cargo though And you learn from it. Tell me what you can learn from a drunk PAX or and unecessary medair phone patch?????Its ok il wait.....
 
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