UAL settles with Buddhist pilot who didn’t want to attend AA meetings

MikeD

MikeD

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$305,000 paid to a Buddhist pilot who refused to attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings on religious grounds.

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Mixed feelings on this. My cousin is an atheist who attends AA meetings. Yes, AA refers to a ”higher power,“ but it’s that general. I asked him how he’s okay with it, and he said they don’t push religion, and he just considers his “higher power” to be naturalism and objective reality. So I’m not sure that requiring AA is really a violation of any faith.

On the other hand, AA is statistically proven to be bulls***. The relapse rate in AA is indistinguishable from the relapse rate outside of it. No program has any legitimate basis for requiring its use.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Mixed feelings on this. My cousin is an atheist who attends AA meetings. Yes, AA refers to a ”higher power,“ but it’s that general. I asked him how he’s okay with it, and he said they don’t push religion, and he just considers his “higher power” to be naturalism and objective reality. So I’m not sure that requiring AA is really a violation of any faith.

On the other hand, AA is statistically proven to be bulls***. The relapse rate in AA is indistinguishable from the relapse rate outside of it. No program has any legitimate basis for requiring its use.
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You are correct that AA pushes no religious affiliations. Even though some of the readings are Christian based they do not make you accept a Christian form of God to be your higher power. It could be a tree for all intentions. Where you are a little off is yes, the national average of relapse is high(70-90%) but those in the HIMS program do great. Over 80% remain sober. One of the requirements to get your special issuance is to regularly attend AA meetings.

There are Muslims, Atheists, Jewish and other faiths all involved in AA. This pilot’s claim is off but this America and you can feel however you want(rightfully so). United just wanted to be done with him.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
You are correct that AA pushes no religious affiliations. Even though some of the readings are Christian based they do not make you accept a Christian form of God to be your higher power. It could be a tree for all intentions. Where you are a little off is yes, the national average of relapse is high(70-90%) but those in the HIMS program do great. Over 80% remain sober. One of the requirements to get your special issuance is to regularly attend AA meetings.

There are Muslims, Atheists, Jewish and other faiths all involved in AA. This pilot’s claim is off but this America and you can feel however you want(rightfully so). United just wanted to be done with him.
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Yep, HIMS is wildly successful. I just don’t think there’s any evidence that AA is responsible for that. Nor does every HIMS program require it. Our HIMS program at AirTran did not use AA. We used legit mental health counseling instead.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Yep, HIMS is wildly successful. I just don’t think there’s any evidence that AA is responsible for that. Nor does every HIMS program require it. Our HIMS program at AirTran did not use AA. We used legit mental health counseling instead.
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It would be interesting to see if the HIMS programs using AA exclusively have a different set of outcomes than the ones that don't.
 
“One is to refrain from drinking even a drop of alcohol and taking intoxicants because they are the cause of heedlessness. If any Buddhists succumb to the lure of intoxicating drinks, they shall not consider me as a teacher.”

…yet, attending AA is against his religion…

I’m guessing a timeline would be insightful…
 
Toobdrvr said:
“One is to refrain from drinking even a drop of alcohol and taking intoxicants because they are the cause of heedlessness. If any Buddhists succumb to the lure of intoxicating drinks, they shall not consider me as a teacher.”

…yet, attending AA is against his religion…

I’m guessing a timeline would be insightful…
Click to expand...
I don't think that many religious adherents stick to the script all that well, so...
 
BobDDuck said:
It would be interesting to see if the HIMS programs using AA exclusively have a different set of outcomes than the ones that don't.
Click to expand...

I agree it would be interesting, but my hypothesis is that there would be little difference, as I suspect the primary factor of success of the programs is simply getting caught and realizing that the multi-million dollar career is over with a relapse.
 
BobDDuck said:
It would be interesting to see if the HIMS programs using AA exclusively have a different set of outcomes than the ones that don't.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend Penn & Teller BS, Season 2, Episode 11 - "12-stepping" for some solid entertaining info on that.

I think the more interesting (and timely) question would be, if pilots had access to more mental health resources without the threat of losing a multi-million dollar career due to outdated government burecracy and practiced could we (1) lower the % of pilots who self-medicate themselves into the circumstances that lead to either getting terminated or entering a HIMS program and (2) lower the pilot suicide rate.

Our numbers (as those who share a profession) vs. the national average would be a place to start.
 
MikeD said:
$305,000 paid to a Buddhist pilot who refused to attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings on religious grounds.

www.businessinsider.co.za

Business Insider

Business Insider tells the global tech, finance, markets, media, healthcare, and strategy stories you want to know.
www.businessinsider.co.za www.businessinsider.co.za
Click to expand...
He's bothered by AA because it goes against his religious beliefs yet he he wasn't bothered to keep his alcohol consumption in check? I love the ones that pick and choose which part of their religion is most convenient to adhere too. Young muslims between 20-40 years old won't eat bacon and make sure everyone on their IG knows they fast during ramadan but you'll see them in Vegas gambling, snorting cocaine and drinking all night long.
 
mrivc211 said:
He's bothered by AA because it goes against his religious beliefs yet he he wasn't bothered to keep his alcohol consumption in check? I love the ones that pick and choose which part of their religion is most convenient to adhere too. Young muslims between 20-40 years old won't eat bacon and make sure everyone on their IG knows they fast during ramadan but you'll see them in Vegas gambling, snorting cocaine and drinking all night long.
Click to expand...
I thought addiction was a disease you couldn’t control?
 
mrivc211 said:
He's bothered by AA because it goes against his religious beliefs yet he he wasn't bothered to keep his alcohol consumption in check? I love the ones that pick and choose which part of their religion is most convenient to adhere too. Young muslims between 20-40 years old won't eat bacon and make sure everyone on their IG knows they fast during ramadan but you'll see them in Vegas gambling, snorting cocaine and drinking all night long.
Click to expand...
please don't confuse the idiocy and dogma of religion with that of an actual disease
 
mrivc211 said:
Sorry, I don’t buy this BS “addiction” excuse. We’re all adults that have the ability to make our own decisions.
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part of the disease is thinking you don't have it or it doesn't affect others... again don't confuse a disease (which is out of their control and not a choice) with religion which is 100% a choice

your opinion of his "addiction" being • doesn't matter, unless you or someone close to you has dealt with alcoholism...your "opinion" is invalid
 
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