The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Problem is, in MANY cases, they only become criminals when they point the weapon at an innocent person. By then, it's too late.

To expand on the previous comment, in the past week we've had 2 mass shootings (Kalamazoo MI and this one in KS). I challenged the other side to show examples of what has happened in terms of mass shootings in other developed, first world countries with gun ownership in this same timeframe.

I'm surprised no one countered with the typical argument of "guns are just the tool, it's the people."

Well, ok, it's the people... but other developed first world countries have guns, too, some even allowing them for self-protection. They also have people who are mentally sick, deranged, etc. But their society as a whole doesn't really suffer from the kinds of mass shootings we suffer here, and certainly not in the same frequency that we go through.

And please don't accuse my side of standing on victims of these tragedies. It's YOUR side's stalwart defense and anti-support of any measure to try and stop these tragedies. It's your side that is grandstanding on the bodies of the victims, and are less than honorable.

To use the famous quote........

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

-Edmund Burke
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If you want to get into a far-reaching debate on "why" these things happen we may have to look at an awfully lot of factors. How much do they value life, i.e. how many abortions do they perform per capita? What's the cultural attitudes towards violence in entertainment? It's not quite as simple as "Allowing guns leads to mass shootings!"
 
BTW, I have to admit, I enjoy these anti-gun threads. I always learn a lot about various concealed carry options and their relative pros and cons! I think the more the anti-gun zealots create these threads, the more gun owners we get.
 
pullup said:
Man in India killed 14 people with a butchers knife....
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But not in the United States. I don't know what the situation was there in India, but a heavily populated congested is the only way to describe India. The US is far more wide open.

Try and knife me, and as long as I can see you with the knife come at me, I will out run you.

I can't outrun a gun.

In that Slender man case in which 2 girls stabbed their friend, numerous times, she still survived. And true, many victims of a mass shooting have survived, but a mass shooting in this country is always more fatal than a mass knifing event.

Besides, the argument was based on comparable first world developed countries with legal gun ownership.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
You STILL know what they really meant :p
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I guess...

Last Ruger I bought has a molded case. Can't put the pistol in with mags in it, and the LCI hits when there's a round in the chamber (it's got the same language in it too). Glocks behind the curve in that one! Most all pistols ship with a method for locking the slide back, because of that they don't usually provide means to lock the case. In reality I bet more people would lock the case than bother to lock the breach open.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
But not in the United States. I don't know what the situation was there in India, but a heavily populated congested is the only way to describe India. The US is far more wide open.

Try and knife me, and as long as I can see you with the knife come at me, I will out run you.

I can't outrun a gun.

In that Slender man case in which 2 girls stabbed their friend, numerous times, she still survived. And true, many victims of a mass shooting have survived, but a mass shooting in this country is always more fatal than a mass knifing event.

Besides, the argument was based on comparable first world developed countries with legal gun ownership.
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So you can outrun a guy 21 feet from you with a knife?

Football players at the combine can take up to 5 seconds to run 40 yards (120 feet). An assailant with a knife can cover 21 feet in under 2 seconds.

Tueller Drill... Look it up. Might make you think harder about your ability to run from a knife.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And please don't accuse my side of standing on victims of these tragedies. It's YOUR side's stalwart defense and anti-support of any measure to try and stop these tragedies. It's your side that is grandstanding on the bodies of the victims, and are less than honorable.
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Nope. I didn't bring up any shootings to try to prove my point.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I guess...

Last Ruger I bought has a molded case. Can't put the pistol in with mags in it, and the LCI hits when there's a round in the chamber (it's got the same language in it too). Glocks behind the curve in that one! Most all pistols ship with a method for locking the slide back, because of that they don't usually provide means to lock the case. In reality I bet more people would lock the case than bother to lock the breach open.
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Fair point

SpiceWeasel said:
So you can outrun a guy 21 feet from you with a knife?

Football players at the combine can take up to 5 seconds to run 40 yards (120 feet). An assailant with a knife can cover 21 feet in under 2 seconds.

Tueller Drill... Look it up. Might make you think harder about your ability to run from a knife.
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You are talking about a professional done in a drill to prove a point. I'm talking about your average dumbazz mentally unstable nutjob with a knife, who invariably is going to be doing certain amounts of yelling, screaming, and attacking a tightly populated area in order to inflict damage.

If I had to choose, I'd rather get stabbed then shot. 2 girls with knives "killed" a girl because of that Slenderman thing online, but in the end the girl lived despite her many stab wounds.

This is detracting from the point. At least in this country, mass stabbings are extremely rare and usually not that fatal compared to mass shootings.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Fair point



You are talking about a professional done in a drill to prove a point. I'm talking about your average dumbazz mentally unstable nutjob with a knife, who invariably is going to be doing certain amounts of yelling, screaming, and attacking a tightly populated area in order to inflict damage.

If I had to choose, I'd rather get stabbed then shot. 2 girls with knives "killed" a girl because of that Slenderman thing online, but in the end the girl lived despite her many stab wounds.

This is detracting from the point. At least in this country, mass stabbings are extremely rare and usually not that fatal compared to mass shootings.
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Sweet baby Jesus, do a Google search for "stab wounds, images." They simply cannot be posted here. You might try refining the search a bit to see what you find for police officers wounded by edged instruments. The results of an attack with a blade of any type are horrific, honestly ...
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Besides, the argument was based on comparable first world developed countries with legal gun ownership.
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Don't you see that the method of murder may change but the intent will still be there. Restrict guns all you want, they'll just grab a knife. Take away knives and they'll grab a baseball bat, etc.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
But not in the United States. I don't know what the situation was there in India, but a heavily populated congested is the only way to describe India. The US is far more wide open.

Try and knife me, and as long as I can see you with the knife come at me, I will out run you.

I can't outrun a gun.

In that Slender man case in which 2 girls stabbed their friend, numerous times, she still survived. And true, many victims of a mass shooting have survived, but a mass shooting in this country is always more fatal than a mass knifing event.

Besides, the argument was based on comparable first world developed countries with legal gun ownership.
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Someone who is disabled may not be able to outrun someone with a knife. They should be permitted to defend themselves too.
 
Bob Ridpath said:
Sweet baby Jesus, do a Google search for "stab wounds, images." They simply cannot be posted here. You might try refining the search a bit to see what you find for police officers wounded by edged instruments. The results of an attack with a blade of any type are horrific, honestly ...
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Yes, but see gun shot wounds and the ensuing blood loss is, IMO, just as graphic. And I'm a regular at LiveLeak :)

pullup said:
Don't you see that the method of murder may change but the intent will still be there. Restrict guns all you want, they'll just grab a knife. Take away knives and they'll grab a baseball bat, etc.
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True, and people have been butchered by knives. But when it comes to mass fatality in this country, a gun is still most effective.

And yes, I'm aware the California drive into a street market killed quite a few as did a recent one at a college parade (Oklahoma? Kansas? I forget), both of which were accidents, but happened and people died nonetheless. But the latest example of someone purposefully using their car as a lawnmower was at Vegas, right in the middle of the Strip, right up the sidewalk and mowed people down. Even then, last it was in the news it was just 1 dead and many injured - but expected to survive. Had she instead taken her guns to the strip and started firing off, it would have been more than 1 dead - a lot more. We're just lucky she didn't use a gun for her crime - either because she didn't own one, or did own one but chose not to use it. I'm not sure if any of that is known.

To go back to the main point of this 45 page thread, Obama is simply trying to do something because no one else wants to - or is able to. But the mass killings are still a tragedy in this country, and all most people really want is to try and minimize it --- not send a Blackhawk to your home with rappelling soldiers who then confiscate your guns.
 
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