Still a good time to go regional?

[chipdumper]

Well yet another example of how fragile the pro pilot biz is. Also a great example for those in college now or in the future to get an education that can benefit them even if they can’t cut it as a pro pilot. There are still a ton of non-laborious careers out there that pay a ton of money. 25 years ago CNC operators paid six figures and today it still pays that and more. I left a solid $120k/yr job (only needs a HS diploma to get hired) due to family issues and two years later I’m back up to $80k doing not much to earn it...(gov’t work).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I remember the time vividly...i got out of aviation because of it. I refused to buy my interview and training. That was when PFT was running rampant after you had 2500TT. Ah, the good old days.

Hell, I even flew down to PR to try to get hired on by DC-3 operators (Four Star, and anther one I can't remember the name of) with no luck.

Se la vie...

TolAir Cargo, Four Star, and Vieques Air Link were the three that were picking up low timers back then.

I went down in 98' after my AirTran furlough to see if I could get a gig.


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[ZapBrannigan]

Back in the day, most regionals were 135. I never looked into the check hauler 135's because I wanted to go airline, but from what I remember, it was build to 1500tt at least, get hired by single pilot 135 ops, build up to 2500tt for the regionals and make $19k per year, after PFT. That pay didn't change for almost 20 years, sadly.

@Derg @MikeD and whoever else was around back in the "good old days" have anything else they remember?

Nope. That was my path. Flight instructed until 1500 TT, flew checks and Airborne Express feeder stuff in Bonanzas and 402s until 2500TT, then paid $10,000 to go to Chautauqua and earn $13,000 in a Jetstream.


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[Stone Cold]

TolAir Cargo, Four Star, and Vieques Air Link were the three that were picking up low timers back then.

I went down in 98' after my AirTran furlough to see if I could get a gig.


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Vieques...that's the one.

Also, I was trying to remember your name on here to tag you, but had a wine-induced brain fart that night. Good to see you found this thread.

 

[86BravoPapa]

So the consensus here is to hold off on the regionals? I have an interview in less than two weeks; or maybe will have an interview; depending on how fast regionals react and shift course.

Are we talking the beginnings of 2008/2009 and the years that followed all over again?

 

[Stone Cold]

So the consensus here is to hold off on the regionals? I have an interview in less than two weeks; or maybe will have an interview; depending on how fast regionals react and shift course.

Are we talking the beginnings of 2008/2009 and the years that followed all over again?

I'll quote what I wrote in the dispatcher thread...

The person that says they know what'll happen is a liar. Nobody knows how long the panic will last. It could be gone in a month or two, and it could be here a while.

You have to live your life, continue on, and do what's best for you, your family, and your career.

Best of luck to us all, and welcome to aviation.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Vieques...that's the one.

Also, I was trying to remember your name on here to tag you, but had a wine-induced brain fart that night. Good to see you found this thread.

No worries. I don't get onto JC as much as I used to. People got tired of my stories and I just felt like another 46 year old "boomer". ;-)




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[chipdumper]

[mention]86BravoPapa [/mention] Unless you don’t want to burn a bridge at some other airline why would you pull out now? If they say they’ll hire you but cannot issue you a class date how will that sit with you financially; can you keep working your current gig? These are wild days that the world hasn’t experienced yet. Wild times, wild effects, wild President, etc. The economy is still strong, factories aren’t burning down, people aren’t rioting, all this virus crap will pass and the airline industry will pickup where it left off; albeit slowly. I still need to book monthly OO flights to visit my parents regardless of the status of the Wuhan Plague. The field sales and tech reps still need to crisscross the region on a daily basis on the regionals.
Look at the big picture. USA population has risen 17% since 9/11. Air travel is more accessible than ever. US airlines carried 450 million pax in 2019. Compare that to 300 million in 2001 (50% more...)
When the scare monger press was pushing “the Coronavirus will have worse effects to the airlines than 9/11 did”, do a reality check. What were devastating numbers in 2001 are not that bad in 2020.

 

[srn121]

So how about on the other side of the industry? Low time (building) pilot jobs. Part 135, pipeline, aerial survey, jump pilots et al. How will COVID 19, but moreso a global recession affect that industry and those jobs? And the people about to, or just finishing primary training?

Asking for a friend. Okay, it's really for me.

Aerial survey's one of the more insulated jobs out there as most companies have contracts for a year or so in advance and it's essentially recession proof. I think a lot of the survey companies hiring low-time pilots would prefer to hire low-time pilots as they know they'll be more likely to stick around for a full season and be more inclined to work hard and build time faster than someone with experience making more money in the past who will likely bolt first chance they can get something better.

I'd imagine pipeline patrol would be similar. Obviously your best bet would be a government flying job if job security was your biggest concern.

 

[srn121]

So the consensus here is to hold off on the regionals? I have an interview in less than two weeks; or maybe will have an interview; depending on how fast regionals react and shift course.

Are we talking the beginnings of 2008/2009 and the years that followed all over again?

If you've got a steady job with a decent paycheck that won't be impacted or where you could potentially claim unemployment I would keep it. This coronavirus should follow the cold/flu season which usually ends in April, however who knows how the people and markets will react in the mean time, how international travel will recover and what the expectations will be for when the the cold/flu season begins again in the Fall. I still think the regionals will be a safe bet, but who knows.

 

[tcco94]

This crap happened to me last time I tried to get into the industry back in 2008. Only this time I have a $60k flight loan to pay back. So I actually have skin in the game this time. Not just regrets like last time. I have the f-ing worst luck.

Keep your head down and focus on what you're doing right now. The last thing you need to worry about is what people in the industry think is going to happen on an internet forum. Anyone can say anything, but literally no one knows. Some people around here want to hit the panic button the second they can, it's the internet. I wouldn't stress over it and let it affect your training. Keep doing your thing and see where we're at in the industry when you're done. You're finally getting there

 

[irwin2018]

Back in the day, most regionals were 135. I never looked into the check hauler 135's because I wanted to go airline, but from what I remember, it was build to 1500tt at least, get hired by single pilot 135 ops, build up to 2500tt for the regionals and make $19k per year, after PFT. That pay didn't change for almost 20 years, sadly.

@Derg @MikeD and whoever else was around back in the "good old days" have anything else they remember?

CFI until 1200-1500TT, fly 135 for a year or two in a piston twin through all kinds of WX, reach 2500TT or so with 1000 multi-engine, interview with a COMMUTER airline (regionals didn't exist back then) flying a 19 seat Jetstream, B1900 or Metroliner for $20,000 a year (and maybe PFT if you were so inclined), upgrade to Captain with 1000 TPIC, interview with a legacy for an FE slot (you know...the guy you sits in the back staring at a bunch of instruments), work your way to the left seat (after enduring no fewer than two furlough events)...........

Ah.............the good ole days!!!

 

[Hiboglossi]

So the consensus here is to hold off on the regionals? I have an interview in less than two weeks; or maybe will have an interview; depending on how fast regionals react and shift course.

Are we talking the beginnings of 2008/2009 and the years that followed all over again?

I'd definitely go to the interviews, and then if you get an offer you can decide. With how fast things have changed it may be clearer by then what the best choice is.

I think this is looking like it could be 2008 (or even 2001) all over again but no one will know for sure until it's in retrospect.

 

[chipdumper]

Worst case you can end up like my brother who was BLOWN OUT from ASA in early 2002. He re-joined the mil into Army OCS and has been making bank while driving a desk as an O-4. Mil officer retirement pensions are 2.5x multiplier. He’ll retire soon and go back into flying pro at his own leisure while collecting a fat pension. Sure beats hangin drywall or swingin a hammer to make bank.

 

[GypsyPilot]

This crap happened to me last time I tried to get into the industry back in 2008. Only this time I have a $60k flight loan to pay back. So I actually have skin in the game this time. Not just regrets like last time. I have the f-ing worst luck.

There will always be opportunities for those that hustle, barring exceptionally bad luck in certain cases. As long as you're flexible in where you'll move, willing to network, and have a good attitude, I think you'll find something. I can't remember though, do you have your CFI?

 

[RetiredATLATC]

American and Delta slash US and overseas flights as coronavirus causes a plunge in bookings

The coronavirus took another bite out of the airline industry on Tuesday, as several airlines announced deep cuts to their international and domestic schedules.

www.cnn.com

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I left my regional with 18 days off making little better than 140k, the last three years I was there I was never below 130k although days off were only 15. Now I was probably a very stable genius on the pay side of the contract and spent 5 hard years working those issue forms and filing grievances (you haven't lived until you've got one with your name on it that you've won). I did the closest thing I could to bidding into conflict through awards and pickups, but if I'd lived in base I'd have made another 20k easily. You do have to want to work and stop being a sucker (saying that to my old EDV co-workers bidding 5 days exclusively). If I'd have been a checkairman and been able to prostitute myself out 200k is possible. So I don't hate regionals as a rule, I understand mine was a little better.

(Back to making the jokes)
Now at SJI and if I get my time in and grab that 2nd or 3rd yr upgrade I know Ive put almost my 16 years in and can finally get that LCC job. It should be easier for me since some of my 2nd yr FOs at EDV are already there building seniority. They did say no to the last guy, but I've got enough guys there I wrote letters for to get my points up.

(More seriously)
I do say all the above knowing I've got a weird perspective, seeing as apparently only the 2nd yr FOs I know are getting the call for an interview. It's possible, and likely in this case. There's more than enough JetBlue guys here that see things first hand and better than I do. Small company though, hard to believe guys aren't seeing this at least a little bit more than they've admitted.

(Back to jokes) I just gotta stay focused and not get into any of that widebody flying or I'll never leave. Stay focused. Live best.

Just curious. What's SJI?


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[Ian_J]

Just curious. What's SJI?


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"Southern Jets International." Code for "Delta."

 

[jynxyjoe]

Just curious. What's SJI?


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I think we're saying Shiny Jet Intunashionul' or somesorta something.
Whatever Derglas calls it.

The SHWAaaaa wasn't feeling my comedy act but SJI bought the act. Still flying a 73 though fast to the marker.

 

[Kingairer]

So the consensus here is to hold off on the regionals? I have an interview in less than two weeks; or maybe will have an interview; depending on how fast regionals react and shift course.

Are we talking the beginnings of 2008/2009 and the years that followed all over again?

I would still go to the interview.