Still a good time to go regional?

[jynxyjoe]

Go yesterday. You’ll be at an LCC or JetBlue in 2 years. CFI-regional FO-LCC FO in 2 years seems to be the norm. It’s a great time.

No no, I was corrected by the LCC pilots on here. That's not the norm. Fake news. No collusion. Bigly pilots go to LCCs. Go-to Delta, get your upgrade at 3 years, then go to LCCs, there's no way pilots are going as 2 year regional FOs and it's impossible that one year FOs are there either.

I have the best words.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Hold that thought. This Corona scare could really sink the airlines for awhile.

Yeah, plus, that’s not average but whatever.

 

[Kingairer]

Yeah, plus, that’s not average but whatever.

?

 

[scooter2525]

Turboprop PIC doesn't mean jack. Ask me how I know. Get to the regional ASAP and build seniorty. If you are going to go, go now.

TPIC helped me get onto a ULCC and was a good talking point for my current employer.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That's not the norm.

I mean, it isn't.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I mean, it isn't.

I'm admitting "my evidence is anecdotal" but it sure FEELS like it. Another 2 yr guy got the JetBlue interview and a thanks but no thanks last week. Is it possible JetBlue just likes my friends from a previous company? If that guy answers one or two questions different he's got the job? At some point isn't there a pattern even if it is anecdotal from my perspective?

 

[Old Pete]

I'm admitting "my evidence is anecdotal" but it sure FEELS like it.

My evidence is apocryphal, don't ask me for "sources"

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'm admitting "my evidence is anecdotal" but it sure FEELS like it. Another 2 yr guy got the JetBlue interview and a thanks but no thanks last week. Is it possible JetBlue just likes my friends from a previous company? If that guy answers one or two questions different he's got the job? At some point isn't there a pattern even if it is anecdotal from my perspective?

Certainly. It's also entirely possible that has moved.

 

[JordanD]

That's what prompted the original question. Others at regionals are already speculating the possibility of reduced block times coming up through the summer season if the scare continues. And, I know Asia is a larger market, revenue wise, for United versus Delta and American but I don't know if anyone foresaw postponed classes, this fast.

If there’s a slow down, heaven forbid the regionals might actually have adequate staffing for once.

 

[jynxyjoe]

My evidence is apocryphal, don't ask me for "sources"

I'm saying I'm the source and I understand it's not a perfect sample size.

 

[Snuggle]

I'm admitting "my evidence is anecdotal" but it sure FEELS like it. Another 2 yr guy got the JetBlue interview and a thanks but no thanks last week. Is it possible JetBlue just likes my friends from a previous company? If that guy answers one or two questions different he's got the job? At some point isn't there a pattern even if it is anecdotal from my perspective?

I mean i’m a rsv ca and fly with brand new guys often. I haven’t met anyone who did as little as 2 years. Last new guy did 16 yrs, and before him was a “This is airline number 7” guy. I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I just haven’t seen them yet.

 

[Beefy McGee]

I mean i’m a rsv ca and fly with brand new guys often. I haven’t met anyone who did as little as 2 years. Last new guy did 16 yrs, and before him was a “This is airline number 7” guy. I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I just haven’t seen them yet.

Assuming you are at JB? If you haven't seen it there, JB might be hiring differently, but I can vouch that a lot of our FOs and junior captains have been hired at Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, as well as various ACMIs in the last three years.

I'm at an AA WO. We are running constant upgrade classes taking all the voluntary upgrades we can get and most classes still are doing forced upgrades here as soon as FOs hit 1000 hours. So new captains pretty much all have less than two years on property, most have a little over 1.5 years here if they upgrade at first opportunity. This is partly because junior CAs are leaving for LCCs and all those other FOs are getting picked up at LCCs before they are even eligible to upgrade, whether voluntarily or forced. FOs with 500-800 hours 121 are popping out to LCCs with less than 1.5 years since they started.

Folks are not sitting and waiting to hit 4000+ hours for legacies to call, and are getting picked up all over the place. Senior captains who started their careers more than a few years ago (crazy that 4-5 years in a 121 regional makes you pretty senior at many places these days) and almost have the magic combination of things to get the hopeful call from a legacy find themselves in the golden handcuffs as guys junior are deciding not to play that traditional game and getting out to the LCCs.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

TPIC helped me get onto a ULCC and was a good talking point for my current employer.

You can get TPIC at a faster rate in a jet at a regional, though. It took me like 3-4 years to get 1000 TPIC flying turboprops under 135. You can do this all while working towards a flow and building seniority. I wasted a lot of time doing 135 turboprop stuff when I would have been much better off going to a regional.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I mean i’m a rsv ca and fly with brand new guys often. I haven’t met anyone who did as little as 2 years. Last new guy did 16 yrs, and before him was a “This is airline number 7” guy. I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I just haven’t seen them yet.

My memory isn't completely fried is it? You went to JB after 5 yrs in regional? 2012ish?

 

[scooter2525]

You can get TPIC at a faster rate in a jet at a regional, though. It took me like 3-4 years to get 1000 TPIC flying turboprops under 135. You can do this all while working towards a flow and building seniority. I wasted a lot of time doing 135 turboprop stuff when I would have been much better off going to a regional.

Valid point. It’s certainly different now then it was 8 years ago when I wanted to break out of the 135 world.

 

[nibake]

No no, I was corrected by the LCC pilots on here. That's not the norm. Fake news. No collusion. Bigly pilots go to LCCs. Go-to Delta, get your upgrade at 3 years, then go to LCCs, there's no way pilots are going as 2 year regional FOs and it's impossible that one year FOs are there either.

I have the best words.

You have great words, btw.

I think the quick upgrade at Delta then an LCC is a cool idea. I'm going to consider that route some more.

I actually do have a point, too: Not all LCC's are created equal. Go to the LCC with the worst contract if you want. It's still better than a regional.
1) Go to said ULCC
2) Go to regional of your choice
3) Stay where you are

All good options, but 1 is better than 2 and so on. It can't hurt to send you app, if it's something you are interested in. JB is definitely more competitive, but not all ULCC's are created equal, by a long shot. If you don't get on elsewhere, going to a regional is still your best path, imo.

My shop's contract is not the worst in every single area. We are not dead last in per diem, we are slightly above last there, so it's not all bad.

Seriously, though, I went from a C90 to a 737. What's not to like about that?

 

[jynxyjoe]

You have great words, btw.

I think the quick upgrade at Delta then an LCC is a cool idea. I'm going to consider that route some more.

I actually do have a point, too: Not all LCC's are created equal. Go to the LCC with the worst contract if you want. It's still better than a regional.
1) Go to said ULCC
2) Go to regional of your choice
3) Stay where you are

All good options, but 1 is better than 2 and so on. It can't hurt to send you app, if it's something you are interested in. JB is definitely more competitive, but not all ULCC's are created equal, by a long shot. If you don't get on elsewhere, going to a regional is still your best path, imo.

My shop's contract is not the worst in every single area. We are not dead last in per diem, we are slightly above last there, so it's not all bad.

Seriously, though, I went from a C90 to a 737. What's not to like about that?

I left my regional with 18 days off making little better than 140k, the last three years I was there I was never below 130k although days off were only 15. Now I was probably a very stable genius on the pay side of the contract and spent 5 hard years working those issue forms and filing grievances (you haven't lived until you've got one with your name on it that you've won). I did the closest thing I could to bidding into conflict through awards and pickups, but if I'd lived in base I'd have made another 20k easily. You do have to want to work and stop being a sucker (saying that to my old EDV co-workers bidding 5 days exclusively). If I'd have been a checkairman and been able to prostitute myself out 200k is possible. So I don't hate regionals as a rule, I understand mine was a little better.

(Back to making the jokes)
Now at SJI and if I get my time in and grab that 2nd or 3rd yr upgrade I know Ive put almost my 16 years in and can finally get that LCC job. It should be easier for me since some of my 2nd yr FOs at EDV are already there building seniority. They did say no to the last guy, but I've got enough guys there I wrote letters for to get my points up.

(More seriously)
I do say all the above knowing I've got a weird perspective, seeing as apparently only the 2nd yr FOs I know are getting the call for an interview. It's possible, and likely in this case. There's more than enough JetBlue guys here that see things first hand and better than I do. Small company though, hard to believe guys aren't seeing this at least a little bit more than they've admitted.

(Back to jokes) I just gotta stay focused and not get into any of that widebody flying or I'll never leave. Stay focused. Live best.

 

[Snuggle]

My memory isn't completely fried is it? You went to JB after 5 yrs in regional? 2012ish?

6 years

 

[jynxyjoe]

6 years

So the guy that took 16 years that was your FO, is that you just taking an anecdotal occurrence from recent memory to contrast my experience with some of your newhires?

 

[Snuggle]

So the guy that took 16 years that was your FO, is that you just taking an anecdotal occurrence from recent memory to contrast my experience with some of your newhires?

It’s possible I just haven’t flown with them. I can only speak from what I personally see on the line. Admittedly, I don’t see a lot though. 300ish hours a year and live for my days off.