Dugie8
Well-Known Member
Dude. Awesome observation.
Southwest 345 Transcript from LGA
- Thread starter Soul Brotha'
- Start date
Dude. Awesome observation.
That is something that a lot of folks don't realize.
Even a four-man crew, two folks in the cockpit screwing up, two guys on break listening to Marc Maron's "WTFPod" or "Keith and the Girl" on their iphones, all four will be in the hearing and all four may get violated.
Train would do it. He would do it… while smoking.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I should also add, I've only flown with 2-3 guys who were true micromanagers. I screw things up on every leg, and most guys have a straightforward way that's acceptable to the airline's culture of telling that you're screwing up and may consider fixing things before they get out of hand. Like the day I punched FLCH without thinking while descending out of the 30's. Within 10 seconds were in a 5,000 FPM descent and the skipper looked up from his AOM III and said, "I mean, we can do this, and you'll make that crossing restriction, but you really think it's necessary to descend at 5,000 FPM?" and then went back to researching some obscure issue in his company approved reading materials.
He was right, I had screwed it up, and I punched it into some other mode and we went about our descent.
He was right, I had screwed it up, and I punched it into some other mode and we went about our descent.
B767
Well-Known Member
/even further thread high jack
if only you didn't hand fly so much...
End even further thread high jack/
I agree with your first post too. I wasn't part of the crew, nor was I anywhere near LGA that day. But it seems like she was afraid of the plane and/or situation. Seems like she was trying to focus on things that would distract her from what was actually going on. Calling early to sit the FAs (understood). Calling again to see if they are seated (understood). Asking the FO TWICE if she remembered to sit the FAs (not understood).
Just an opinion though. One formed from dealing with micromanagers, who are usually afraid of something. Shooting an ILS to minimums with a stiff crosswind. "Did you call in range to ops and get us a gate?" Huh? What the hell? That's what's on your mind right now?
if only you didn't hand fly so much...
End even further thread high jack/
I agree with your first post too. I wasn't part of the crew, nor was I anywhere near LGA that day. But it seems like she was afraid of the plane and/or situation. Seems like she was trying to focus on things that would distract her from what was actually going on. Calling early to sit the FAs (understood). Calling again to see if they are seated (understood). Asking the FO TWICE if she remembered to sit the FAs (not understood).
Just an opinion though. One formed from dealing with micromanagers, who are usually afraid of something. Shooting an ILS to minimums with a stiff crosswind. "Did you call in range to ops and get us a gate?" Huh? What the hell? That's what's on your mind right now?
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/even further thread high jack
if only you didn't hand fly so much...
End even further thread high jack/
I agree with your first post too. I wasn't part of the crew, nor was I anywhere near LGA that day. But it seems like she was afraid of the plane and/or situation. Seems like she was trying to focus on things that would distract her from what was actually going on. Calling early to sit the FAs (understood). Calling again to see if they are seated (understood). Asking the FO TWICE if she remembered to sit the FAs (not understood).
Just an opinion though. One formed from dealing with micromanagers, who are usually afraid of something. Shooting an ILS to minimums with a stiff crosswind. "Did you call in range to ops and get us a gate?" Huh? What the hell? That's what's on your mind right now?
If you call ops in range or not, if requested by the green page, I really don't care. I think it's a holdover from the pre smartphone days. Our aircraft have a constant stream of telemetry data, reports to flight control over every waypoint and even my woefully unemployed nephew has an iPhone 6 (aroo?) but we've still got to go "Marconi" and call some dude on the ground to let him know we're 15 minutes out? Please. It's a courtesy and a time-permitting thing.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Sometimes. Depends on the POI and how much empire building they do. We screwed up out here and I never got a letter because, according to the POI, I'm only the FO and unless something goes wrong specifically because of me (think: missed walk around item etc), the PIC is responsible and I have no responsibility.
Kind of nice, but... strange.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Not too long ago, below 10,000', I was told to keep my speed up into a Class C airport- we were number 1. So we did 250. After a few minutes ATC told us that the other airplane was overtaking us, told us to slow down and gave us a vector.
Guess who it was overtaking us? FO was PO'ed, I just laughed about it.
Guess who it was overtaking us? FO was PO'ed, I just laughed about it.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Micromanagers are the worst. 
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
I remember going into LBB and completely mind-blowing approach because we were overtaking Southwest. We eventually had to do S-turns on final. It was the greatest day of my life...
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
It is just as sketchy in just about every plane I have flown too. Will happily command a stall and let go with a chirp giving you a warning within a whisker of a millisecond to do something... Or overspeed in descent. Or something else dufus I haven't thought of. I find the trim wheel does a far better job, and just arm ALT SEL. At least someone is theoretically paying attention at that point.
There was a day when we're pretty heavy and high. We accept a higher altitude which is still below our max and the other FO, who was PF, rolls in a hefty VS command.
My spidey sense tingles, because ain't nothing going to do 2000 fpm, that high, at that ISA, at our weight.
He says something about how it's "smoother that way".
So the plane pitches up, the power jams forward the plan gets slow, he commands less of a VS, the engines are still roaring trying to maintain VS and our selected airspeed and it's just a monkey humping a football.
"Smooth, huh. Just FLCH next time, son."
The automation doesn't know what you're trying to accomplish, it only accomplishes what you told it to.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
And now begins the VS FLCH debate. 3....2...1..GO!
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I'll spin in a VS climb if FLCH starts to wander looking for a speed to hold, but it doesn't happen that often in this thing. Climbing in VS requires some real babysitting.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
Yeah the last 1,000 feet of a climb (at high alt) sometimes I'll put in 500 fpm. Then watch it like a hawk...
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
You keep doing that and reminding us corporate pilots why a smooth ride is important when the boss is on board.
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PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
You mean do your job?
Yeah, well. There's monitoring, then there's monitoring when you're in VS.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You drunk tonight, or just angry?
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