Southwest 345 Transcript from LGA

Derg said:
Exactly. And it also breaks down the other crewmember where you're in the dichotomy of "What do I need to do" versus "What does the other guy want to see" and you're straight-up paralyzed
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Dude. Awesome observation.
 
jtrain609 said:
At my last job, the famous last words of a captain trying to convince you to do something you shouldn't do was, "I'll take responsibility for that."

They honestly didn't understand that they couldn't, and that they hang crew members together.
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That is something that a lot of folks don't realize.

Even a four-man crew, two folks in the cockpit screwing up, two guys on break listening to Marc Maron's "WTFPod" or "Keith and the Girl" on their iphones, all four will be in the hearing and all four may get violated.
 
I should also add, I've only flown with 2-3 guys who were true micromanagers. I screw things up on every leg, and most guys have a straightforward way that's acceptable to the airline's culture of telling that you're screwing up and may consider fixing things before they get out of hand. Like the day I punched FLCH without thinking while descending out of the 30's. Within 10 seconds were in a 5,000 FPM descent and the skipper looked up from his AOM III and said, "I mean, we can do this, and you'll make that crossing restriction, but you really think it's necessary to descend at 5,000 FPM?" and then went back to researching some obscure issue in his company approved reading materials.

He was right, I had screwed it up, and I punched it into some other mode and we went about our descent.
 
/even further thread high jack

if only you didn't hand fly so much...

End even further thread high jack/

;)

I agree with your first post too. I wasn't part of the crew, nor was I anywhere near LGA that day. But it seems like she was afraid of the plane and/or situation. Seems like she was trying to focus on things that would distract her from what was actually going on. Calling early to sit the FAs (understood). Calling again to see if they are seated (understood). Asking the FO TWICE if she remembered to sit the FAs (not understood).

Just an opinion though. One formed from dealing with micromanagers, who are usually afraid of something. Shooting an ILS to minimums with a stiff crosswind. "Did you call in range to ops and get us a gate?" Huh? What the hell? That's what's on your mind right now?
 
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B767 said:
/even further thread high jack

if only you didn't hand fly so much...

End even further thread high jack/

;)

I agree with your first post too. I wasn't part of the crew, nor was I anywhere near LGA that day. But it seems like she was afraid of the plane and/or situation. Seems like she was trying to focus on things that would distract her from what was actually going on. Calling early to sit the FAs (understood). Calling again to see if they are seated (understood). Asking the FO TWICE if she remembered to sit the FAs (not understood).

Just an opinion though. One formed from dealing with micromanagers, who are usually afraid of something. Shooting an ILS to minimums with a stiff crosswind. "Did you call in range to ops and get us a gate?" Huh? What the hell? That's what's on your mind right now?
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If you call ops in range or not, if requested by the green page, I really don't care. I think it's a holdover from the pre smartphone days. Our aircraft have a constant stream of telemetry data, reports to flight control over every waypoint and even my woefully unemployed nephew has an iPhone 6 (aroo?) but we've still got to go "Marconi" and call some dude on the ground to let him know we're 15 minutes out? Please. It's a courtesy and a time-permitting thing.
 
Derg said:
Even a four-man crew, two folks in the cockpit screwing up, two guys on break listening to Marc Maron's "WTFPod" or "Keith and the Girl" on their iphones, all four will be in the hearing and all four may get violated.
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Sometimes. Depends on the POI and how much empire building they do. We screwed up out here and I never got a letter because, according to the POI, I'm only the FO and unless something goes wrong specifically because of me (think: missed walk around item etc), the PIC is responsible and I have no responsibility.

Kind of nice, but... strange.
 
Not too long ago, below 10,000', I was told to keep my speed up into a Class C airport- we were number 1. So we did 250. After a few minutes ATC told us that the other airplane was overtaking us, told us to slow down and gave us a vector.
Guess who it was overtaking us? FO was PO'ed, I just laughed about it.
 
Blackhawk said:
Not too long ago, below 10,000', I was told to keep my speed up into a Class C airport- we were number 1. So we did 250. After a few minutes ATC told us that the other airplane was overtaking us, told us to slow down and gave us a vector.
Guess who it was overtaking us? FO was PO'ed, I just laughed about it.
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I remember going into LBB and completely mind-blowing approach because we were overtaking Southwest. We eventually had to do S-turns on final. It was the greatest day of my life...
 
Derg said:
VS is potential flaming death in most planes I've flown.
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It is just as sketchy in just about every plane I have flown too. Will happily command a stall and let go with a chirp giving you a warning within a whisker of a millisecond to do something... Or overspeed in descent. Or something else dufus I haven't thought of. I find the trim wheel does a far better job, and just arm ALT SEL. At least someone is theoretically paying attention at that point.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
It is just as sketchy in just about every plane I have flown too. Will happily command a stall and let go with a chirp giving you a warning within a whisker of a millisecond to do something... Or overspeed in descent. Or something else dufus I haven't thought of. I find the trim wheel does a far better job, and just arm ALT SEL. At least someone is theoretically paying attention at that point.
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There was a day when we're pretty heavy and high. We accept a higher altitude which is still below our max and the other FO, who was PF, rolls in a hefty VS command.

My spidey sense tingles, because ain't nothing going to do 2000 fpm, that high, at that ISA, at our weight.

He says something about how it's "smoother that way".

So the plane pitches up, the power jams forward the plan gets slow, he commands less of a VS, the engines are still roaring trying to maintain VS and our selected airspeed and it's just a monkey humping a football.

"Smooth, huh. Just FLCH next time, son."

The automation doesn't know what you're trying to accomplish, it only accomplishes what you told it to.
 
Derg said:
There was a day when we're pretty heavy and high. We accept a higher altitude which is still below our max and the other FO, who was PF, rolls in a hefty VS command.

My spidey sense tingles, because ain't nothing going to do 2000 fpm, that high, at that ISA, at our weight.

He says something about how it's "smoother that way".

So the plane pitches up, the power jams forward the plan gets slow, he commands less of a VS, the engines are still roaring trying to maintain VS and our selected airspeed and it's just a monkey humping a football.

"Smooth, huh. Just FLCH next time, son."

The automation doesn't know what you're trying to accomplish, it only accomplishes what you told it to.
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I'll spin in a VS climb if FLCH starts to wander looking for a speed to hold, but it doesn't happen that often in this thing. Climbing in VS requires some real babysitting.
 
jtrain609 said:
I'll spin in a VS climb if FLCH starts to wander looking for a speed to hold, but it doesn't happen that often in this thing. Climbing in VS requires some real babysitting.
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You keep doing that and reminding us corporate pilots why a smooth ride is important when the boss is on board.;):cool:
 
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