Southwest 345 Transcript from LGA
- Thread starter Soul Brotha'
- Start date
cmhumphr
Well-Known Member
I've been waiting on this one for awhile. Thanks!
It's crazy how busy they were with all the holding, weather, and deviations. I can't tell if there is a lot of micromanaging going on, or if the FO is just new. Seems to be a lot of confusion about flying the plane.
It's crazy how busy they were with all the holding, weather, and deviations. I can't tell if there is a lot of micromanaging going on, or if the FO is just new. Seems to be a lot of confusion about flying the plane.
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Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
Veeeerrrrry Interesting!
B767
Well-Known Member
I'm unsure of SWA's SOP for stabilized criteria and what not, and have no idea how going from flaps 30 to 40 effects the handling characteristics of a 737...
But it was 33 seconds after the 1st 1000 ft call that she realized they briefed flaps 40. And it was 2 seconds before the 500 ft call that flaps were confirmed 40. Maybe that movement alone caused a ballooning affect that caused him to become high? @Seggy? @ZapBrannigan?
Kind of a big mishap for someone that was micromanaging. 3-6 seconds after the 100 ft call she said you need to "get down" 4 times.
Easy to Monday morning quarterback once the transcript is released, but there seems to have been a lot of mishaps in the last 1000 ft that an easy (let's go around and do this better next time) "go around" call could have fixed.
But it was 33 seconds after the 1st 1000 ft call that she realized they briefed flaps 40. And it was 2 seconds before the 500 ft call that flaps were confirmed 40. Maybe that movement alone caused a ballooning affect that caused him to become high? @Seggy? @ZapBrannigan?
Kind of a big mishap for someone that was micromanaging. 3-6 seconds after the 100 ft call she said you need to "get down" 4 times.
Easy to Monday morning quarterback once the transcript is released, but there seems to have been a lot of mishaps in the last 1000 ft that an easy (let's go around and do this better next time) "go around" call could have fixed.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That too!
ZapBrannigan
Old enough to have watched Wings live on TV.
Note to self. Don't say anything bad about wife during last hour of flight...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
But you've flown with these cats too.
FO: "22,000 is set, VNAV."
CA: "Descend in VS."
FO: "Your aircraft, my radios. Have fun flying the next 20 legs!"
VS is potential flaming death in most planes I've flown.
I've probably only had one captain in recent memory (I'm sure there were more, but I've got a 16K 8-bit brain) that asked me to descend in a less than appropriate fashion, I asked him why, he said something like "I don't trust (whatever standard, appropriate mode we would traditionally use in that situation) and I said, "Your jet"
I don't believe in the "hand of god" approach to CRM.
I've probably only had one captain in recent memory (I'm sure there were more, but I've got a 16K 8-bit brain) that asked me to descend in a less than appropriate fashion, I asked him why, he said something like "I don't trust (whatever standard, appropriate mode we would traditionally use in that situation) and I said, "Your jet"
I don't believe in the "hand of god" approach to CRM.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The real problem, I see, with micromanaging captains is that it's distracting. I'm not only trying to fly the plane, but also thinking about how they want me to fly the plane, and thinking about how I SHOULD fly the plane, and whether what they're saying makes any sense at all, and then wondering what crazy thing they're going to say next.
Now, I'm pretty stupid, and don't have the brain capacity to think about all that at once AND make crossing restrictions. If they want the plane flown a certain way that's not in the book, as you say, they can take it.
Granted I left out the back and forth about being unfamiliar with that mode and had been warned extensively about using that particular mode when we had constraints on the descent..
Exactly. And it also breaks down the other crewmember where you're in the dichotomy of "What do I need to do" versus "What does the other guy want to see" and you're straight-up paralyzed.
But then, at the end of the day, having been to "the big brown desk", the Feds, the chief pilot and your ALPA reps are going to expect you to not only know the company policy on the procedure or maneuver and expect your compliance with it.
"Because I'm the captain" or "The captain said do it" is a defense of legend. When everyone stops laughing and chortling "Dude! That was good! *cough* you got my while I was drinking!" they're going to again ask you why you did what you did.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
At my last job, the famous last words of a captain trying to convince you to do something you shouldn't do was, "I'll take responsibility for that."
They honestly didn't understand that they couldn't, and that they hang crew members together.
B767
Well-Known Member
I know a guy, who, as a baby FO at their first airline, had a captain critiquing him on how he was setting up for the approach. He was doing it by the book, and the captain was more of a balls to the wall, I hate being trapped in a cockpit, kind of guy. So the next leg the FO tried it his way. Resulted in a go around from getting behind the airplane because the FO was too focused on flying the captains way. Learned early on in his career that he can't do just as you said. Focus on flying by the book, complying with ATC, AND trying to appease the captains "better than the book" way of flying.
ZapBrannigan
Old enough to have watched Wings live on TV.
Still giggling at "you have the plane, I have the radios, enjoy the next 20 legs..."
I'd love to see the look on the guy's face..
I'd love to see the look on the guy's face..
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I don't think most guys realize that their behavior is unacceptable until you do something to mentally slap them across the face, because so many guys go along with what they want.
When you tell them that you're not going to fly another leg on the trip, they start back peddling. "Well I didn't mean that you NEED TO use VS, it's just that I've found it works better, and I want YOU to be a better pilot!"
Because they believe they're the gold standard of the profession.
B767
Well-Known Member
Me too! Except he had an ! at the end. So I imagine it being said with an upbeat/ecstatic tone and a smile on one's face.