Should I opt out of CFI program?

Nothing, NOTHING prepared me better for a job at an airline than flight instructing.

NOTHING.

Anybody that tells you that the time you spend in the pattern is worthless time doesn't know what they're talking about.

Don't buy the hype bro, flight instructing make the best (civilian trained) pilots out there.

Nothing, NOTHING prepared me better for a job at an airline than skydiver dropping.

NOTHING.

Anybody that tells you that the time you spend climbing up and down is worthless time doesn't know what they're talking about.

Don't buy the hype bro, skydiver dropping make the best (civilian trained) pilots out there.
 
Nothing, NOTHING prepared me better for a job at an airline than skydiver dropping.

NOTHING.

Anybody that tells you that the time you spend climbing up and down is worthless time doesn't know what they're talking about.

Don't buy the hype bro, skydiver dropping make the best (civilian trained) pilots out there.

Are you for real, or just being sarcastic? lol
 
btw, what exactly is that situation?


first learning how to fly inverted.... i was instructed to climb, so what do i do? pull back! WRONG. inverted dive at full power, not good. anyway, weird to force yourself to think in 3D instead of rote memory... thats what im talking about expanding your SA as a pilot instead of just following memory patterns.


and yeah, people ask me hey can you roll this or that, and yes, you can, but i would NEVER do it in a plane not certified for those kinds of stresses, and if anyone tries to do it with me in the plane, im calling the FAA, assuming I live to tell the tale!
 
To TxAviator,

I have seen this before--I was given the assignment of teaching a "quasi" aerobatic guy his intial CFI.

Guy was flat out a better stick then me--I learned a LOT from him.

He had a HUGE chip on his shoulder that such an ace should have to stoop to such levels--surely anybody could see his credentials--he was SKYGOD darnit.

Long story short, it took a lot of patience and me having to raise my voice in defense of the craft to teach this budding teacher that the craft of teaching somebody else is quite distinct from being a good stick.


I forget the lesson plan we where working on developing together, but to this day it makes me grin, I think it was steep turns and these where his words of wisdom out of the box for his imaginary initial student..."...Ok, little slow, add power, nose low? pitch back..any questions?"

We are friends now, and he we have mutual respect for each other. He is a better stick than me and taught me a lot...did a take off for IFR and at 200 feet, he was trimmed for hands off, checklist complete and looking at a sectional..he glanced at me with a "ok, do this! you sob" look.

guess the point is, that it is two different skill sets, but the latter reinforces the former.

b.
 
first learning how to fly inverted.... i was instructed to climb, so what do i do? pull back! WRONG. inverted dive at full power, not good.


How did your instructor get you out of that?
Did he scream in panic? or had he been there done that?
In restrospect do you get the impression that maybe he was prepared that you might do the thing you did and positioned the A.C. so that you both lived and that you learned something?

b.
 
Holy smoke JS, you can really stir'em up.:eek:

You and I need to have a little heart to heart over a Guinness. Look me up over here at the housing.


And for what its worth his instructor is a pretty sharp kid.
 
well if anyone wants to get out from behind the computers and put down the e-warrior talk, ill gladly have a beer with you guys... ive got no chip, and i dont boast or brag to people OMG LOOK HOW FREAKIN KICKASS I AM...but i am using my own experience to illustrate my point of view, just like some of you other guys are doing for your own.

inverted spins, FUN!

ps- time to leave the strip club for the day. im out!
 
After reading all these posts about airline pilots, half pilots, students, flying inverted etc.. the only thing that matters and that will help you is IFR skills. That's what you do at pro flying operations, fly IFR, from day one. The only people that washed out or had significant problems with training and IOE were people that had no real IFR experience, yes even 1200 hour VFR CFIs.
 
How did your instructor get you out of that?
Did he scream in panic? or had he been there done that?
In restrospect do you get the impression that maybe he was prepared that you might do the thing you did and positioned the A.C. so that you both lived and that you learned something?

b.


it wasnt so much a scream as a HOLY CRAP DONT DO THAT DUDE! and pushing the stick forward rapidly. i felt pretty small after that!

prepared? well the a/c was at a good altitude, but at that speed, trying to recover from the inverted dive that i could have got into would have probably been difficult/fatal.

yes, both of us learned something, me, dont do inverted dives at full power. him, keep your hand on the stick.
 
I'm 21. I just started my flight training here in FL. I have about 15 hours. I'm just saying that I would gain more experience flying PIC or right seat 135 cargo then supervising a student in cessna. This is just my opinion.

Where in FL are you training?
 
After reading all these posts about airline pilots, half pilots, students, flying inverted etc.. the only thing that matters and that will help you is IFR skills. That's what you do at pro flying operations, fly IFR, from day one. The only people that washed out or had significant problems with training and IOE were people that had no real IFR experience, yes even 1200 hour VFR CFIs.

You win! close thread that was my original point. :clap:
 
If you want to be a CFI then do it. If not, don't... That simple.... But you truly don't know what you don't know until you try to teach it.... or better yet, teach something wrong and be corrected by a fellow CFI, Chief, or student.... Then you begin to realize that you don't know squat...... talk about humbling....

Training for and getting your CFI teaches alot to you. Even if you never use it, it is never money wasted. You will learn alot, more then you would think. And it will make you a better pilot, period. Is it the end all? Of course not. But you will learn.... it's finally putting everything together and then trying to teach people of all types and I mean all types, ages, etc. to fly.....

Aerobatics is great, and I am a huge proponent of pilots getting trained in aerobatics for the experience and knowledge gained. Plus it is a blast.

However, overall mastery of a skill comes afte many hours and studying many disciplines. CFI, aerobatics, instrument flying are many skills and it will take a long time to master anyone of them..., let alone combining those skills to create a good professional pilot. I call it tools in the tool box. The more tools you have, the better you are to handle a given situation.....

I think of where I was three years ago, to where I am now in skill, knowledge and mastery. It was the CFI (at first), then the 2000 plus hours of instructing that taught me the most (at all levels). The ability to teach people of all walks of life to fly and to interact with them and see things going bad, long before they do, is something that takes time and experience. And there is no short cuts to aquiring these skill sets. Is it always fun? No. But it is always a learning experience. Even when you think that there is nothing more to learn (for yourself), there is. You may not even realize it. The learning by you is incidental to the teaching by you, but learning is still occuring.

And you will learn more in your first two weeks of teaching, then anything you have done before in your flying. Then as your skills and certs increase (as does you hours), so does your knowledge. Usually your best learning experiences come from mistakes that you made with your students. At my flight school, believe me when I say that we are called out on our mistakes. This is done for many reasons, but first and foremost, it is because our bosses want us to be the best we can be. And they want students trained by our school to have quality instruction. Long story short, we care. And we want to do it right.

I consider myself a good CFI with a descent amount of experience. I am a CFI/CFII whom also teaches tailwheel and aerobatics. And I love doing it. But it wasn't until I had been teaching at one level for a while that I was able to move up to the next. I got good at one thing, and then went to the next level and the next.

Are there better out there? Without a doubt. I just try to do the best I can and learn more and more all the time to be even better. And there is sooooo much more to learn. Nice thing about aviation, is that you will never truly know everything. We can only hope to know more then we did the day before.....

The moral of my ramblings is this. All training is good training and all experience is good (whether or not we think so at the time). CFI is not the only way. I just don't know another way to begin to master a skill, as when one teaches the skill.

The original poster is young and has admitted as much. Alot of us here are a bit older with a little or a lot of gray in the hair (if we still have it). They will learn what we have. All we can do is give advice and hope they will take some of it as being good. From there it is up to them. As far as being humble, well, time takes care of that as well.... One way or another.
 
I wanna fly lots of hardcore IFR. That to me would look better on a resume.
Try instructing in it

90+% of the jobs available to low time pilots, are CFI jobs.

If you want to immediately disqualify yourself for 90+% of the jobs available to a low time pilot, then definitely skip it.
 
You win! close thread that was my original point. :clap:

Let me just say this: Acro might make you one hell of a stick, but instructing gives you much of the judgment required to do all of the "hard IFR" operations you'll do in your career. Situational awareness and the ability to think ahead are just two of the benefits you'll receive from instructing. Flying IFR is a technical skill that can be learned. Judgment is something that must be gained through experience, and the experience of being PIC with a new pilot next to you is unmatched when it comes time to move up the ladder.
 
Am I crosseyed or is this thread suggesting that a person that has no passion or interest in being an instructor should go out and instruct? Who is kidding who?

Look at the training environment we already have:

Cookiecutting, shortcuts, no real standards... lousy attitudes and very little pride. Sure, in todays market you will need a CFI ticket to find a job. But I find it utterly scary to recommend to someone without passion for it to go be a CFI. Thats almost ridicule.

While we're at it, take the gun out of the drawer, load it up, and shoot yourself in the foot! It will hurt for a while, but at least you could blame me for having told you to do so... ;)


Besides I think the experience gained from being a flight instructor is worthless(At least on primary training.). I wanna fly lots of hardcore IFR. That to me would look better on a resume.

Woooof! I had not really read this! If you seriously believe that flight time gained while instructing is "WORTHLESS"...
I would recommend a career as janitor or maybe as a MallWart (WALMART) greeter.
The pay beats that of a first year FO with a regional airline and you don't have to toss fat and cheap customers panties around.
Good Luck!
 
It's kind of strange that we're talking about Acrobatic skills in the context of a guy questioning whether he wants to be a CFI leading up to a career flying 135 or 121.

You need 0 acrobatic ability to fly a 121 airliner. Do you need some stick and rudder skills. Of course, but there are many who can take off, turn on the AP, then kick it off at 400'AGL to thunk-it on, day in, day out and make a career out of it.

Again, a good CFI is one who's increased his situational awareness while being able to instruct. It's that radio call that the student never heard, the plane out of the corner of your eye in the pattern that you didn't see.

Instruct at a busy field and you will learn how to do 100000 things at once.

BEING AN AIRLINE PILOT (ESPECIALLY CAPTAIN) IS MORE ABOUT MANAGING A FLIGHT THAN STICK AND RUDDER!! You are the hub between ground ops, flight attendant, maintenance, dispatch, ATC...you name it. Guess what CFIs do...they manage flights (lessons). Make a plan to complete XYZ in this flight given this time allotment while dealing with MX, weather, ATC, your school (ops) etc...

I've done acrobatics, it was educational, fun etc...but def helped me more in my light aircraft flying career than my 121 career. Airline flying isn't about winning contests, it's about consistently managing flights and carrying them out safely, within regulations, comfortably and economically.
 
Crap that was my 1400 post...When do I become Old School?! Can't I be grandfathered in for being on the site since Dec '01?!
 
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