Should I opt out of CFI program?

jspeed87 said:
I've been thinking if I should opt out of the CFI program at my flight school. I'm still working on my PSEL. After looking how unhappy instructors are at my flight school, I myself would not like to instruct just to build time. I think flight instructing should be something you really want to do. I would save about 5k if I opt out and would still have a CMEL with about 260 hours of multi engine time. Do I stand a chence in finding a job back at home in NJ/NY/PA? What job optinons are out there in the tri-state area without a CFI?
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Go to your CFI program. Pass the CFI program. Get your CFI certificate. Keep your CFI current (until you are sure that you'll never need to use it again, which will probably be never, or until you decide to hang-up flying for good). Get a CFI job in your tri-state area (until you can get a job doing whatever else it is that you want to do in the aviation industry). Provide outstanding instruction to your students while carrying out the role of a CFI. Consider it money well spent that will pay you dividends down the road.

Be sure to post a comment here on 'jetcareers' after you've passed your first student. I'm sure we'd all love to hear your response on how you feel about being a CFI after you've left your mark on the aviation community in this manner.
 
I got here way too late- and this is way too long. But I am going to sit down and read what people posted here b/c I feel it's important.

I've heard the statement-- "i'm not going to CFI because I wouldn't be good at it and that would be a disservice to my students".
I'm not sure I buy that excuse, to be quite honest. Maybe true for some, maybe not-- but you clearly don't have any flight experience to back that up.
NOW-- that being said-- if you're a CMEL guy who can't stand talking to people, interacting with people, etc, then maybe you can go ahead and state that. Give it time.

As a 121 pilot now, I started out by instructing for about 1900+ hours in little cessnas and a beat up seminole. Having a little engine failure onboard in the pattern with a 14 yr old kid riding along was an experience that I had. 5 years later, we had another engine failure with <bold>70+ people <bold--I have no idea how to boldface on this thing> going into a major airport and I can safely say that is was pretty much the same damn thing all over again. BUT-- it's funny to think about how much better I handled the second one after going through the first one as a CFI.

EVERYTHING I learned as a CFI led me to be a much better pilot at the 121 level.

I think the one thing I brought away from it was a real clear understanding of how humbling this whole flying thing is. I have so much more to learn-- I'm pretty sure I loosened someone's filling the other day, but for me-- the learning process and the growth that you experience in this career is why I got into it in the first place. Why you want to shortcut the experience of is a little unclear to me.

IF you are having some doubts about how hard private training is (it's probably the hardest you'll do) and how discouraging it is, then I totally understand your initial comments.

But Jtrain mentioned it and I will too-- give it some time and see if your opinions about CFI-ing change. btw, Shooting hard-core IFR in a 172 is one of the most miserable experiences I have ever had. I did it 3 times and that was enough for me and I still got hired at the 121 level.



I never post on here anymore, although I've been on this board for almost 10 years now, so this is a bit of a rambling post. BUT I'll also say that being a CFI created more

1. friendships,
2.aviation connections in the : corporate, 121 and GA world than I can count and
3. self-confidence (which led to)
4. booty

Just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. And ALSO a little hint:


I believe if I were on a 121 hiring board, I'd value people with at least a LITTLE CFI experience... because:

as a CFI the most valuable thing you learn is how to work with people. And so when you work the SFO-EWR flights in the 757 (and you will, don't worry), then you'll have some idea as to how to get along with the guy/gal you're sitting next to.



Have fun-- good luck with training-
 
jhugz said:
I just don't understand Ryan's logic on his instructor is a POS. I don't enjoy instructing but I do it because it puts food on the table...kind of, and it is a means to an end. Like I said before, I don't go into lesson's checked out. I give the lesson's 100% and try to teach my student to the very best of my ability.

That is all I was trying to say so hop off some...k?
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If you don't enjoy instructing, it's going to show. That attitude is why I have carefully interviewed EVERY CFI I've ever worked with. Nothing personal, but I don't want instructors like you. I want a CFI who loves to teach.

TXaviator said:
dont drink the koolaid. if you dont want to instruct, DONT. i would be equally unhappy instructing, or being unemployed, which I am right now.

dont get your CFI if you really dont want to teach, wasting your own money.
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And as much as I think getting the CFI is important to one's development as an aviator, I also agree with TX Aviator. An interested, engaged, curious student (you know, the kind all you CFIs want) is going to know if you're into teaching, if you like it. And if they're smart and detect that you're not into it, they'll drop you. And they should.

So, yeah. If you really don't want to teach, don't.
 
killbilly said:
If you don't enjoy instructing, it's going to show. That attitude is why I have carefully interviewed EVERY CFI I've ever worked with. Nothing personal, but I don't want instructors like you. I want a CFI who loves to teach.
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Because if they love to teach temporary certificates magically appear in your hand. Give me a break.

This is my PROFESSION not my hobby.
 
jspeed87 said:
I'm 21. I just started my flight training here in FL. I have about 15 hours. I'm just saying that I would gain more experience flying PIC or right seat 135 cargo then supervising a student in cessna. This is just my opinion.
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Be Forewarned:

All flight hours are not equal! Flying a student in a Cessna makes you the PIC.
Flying right seat in a 135 operation will prolly mean you paid for some SIC time. ( Translates to PFJ around here)
After getting to the 500 hours mins required to fly PIC VFR on 135 routes, you might have to fly for free for almost a year to get up to the 1200 hours that will make you hireable PIC IFR in 135.
If you do those things knowing in advance you're knocking people out of paying jobs in THIS job market, prepare to change your name and frequent other forums. You won't EVER be accepted by those that did it by CFI'ing.
 
It is fine that the OP does not want to instruct. It is not for everyone. I would not want an instructor that did not have at least a little compassion in what they were doing. A few years ago I got checked out at a school so I could take one of their plane on x-c. Anyway during the checkout I used my checklist for climb, cruise, in range etc.. and in the post flight briefing he stated how surprised that I used checklists in those phases of flight and really was not needed. Frankly, I was surprised he even stated that much less thought it. Furhter in our conversation he said that he had interviewed with a few of the regionals and has not been hired. This was in the frenzy of 2007. Hmm, I wonder why? This instructor was there to fill his logbook with time and it showed.

Like I said before it is fine if you do not want to instruct, but do not think for one minute that instructing will not teach you how to be a better pilot. I would bet even our TX guy would agree he would be a better aerobatic pilot if he had to teach it.

It is your career so take the path you see most fit for you. Just do not ask for opinions and then tell the vast majority they are wrong. You are early in your training and really do not know what you speak of. Wait until you have more time to make your final decision. My opinion is get them. You do not have to use them but in the grand scheme of things it is a nice backup.
 
Socal321 said:
After reading all these posts about airline pilots, half pilots, students, flying inverted etc.. the only thing that matters and that will help you is IFR skills. That's what you do at pro flying operations, fly IFR, from day one. The only people that washed out or had significant problems with training and IOE were people that had no real IFR experience, yes even 1200 hour VFR CFIs.
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Nah! It takes a bit more than that. I would say that, even though you're flying on an IFR flight plan, you'll only fly in instrument conditions about 10-20% of the time, if even that. As far as instrument approaches go, probably even less of a ratio to that of visual approaches, say 1 out of 15-20 approaches.

Flying single-pilot requires a certain skill set above and beyond IFR skills--such as a heightened sense of situational awareness, for example, since you are flying alone. Two-pilot ops requires good crew resource management, since you'll be sharing the work load and relying on the other crew member to back you up. THESE ARE JUST EXAMPLES.

Your IFR skills are just one of many skill sets needed to make a successful pilot. You need to focus on knowing your craft very well overall, not in just one aspect of it. Work on becoming a good well-rounded pilot; one that possess fine airmanship abilities, a good working-knowledge of navigation (e.g. pilotage, radio nav, dead-reckoning, etc.), the ability to play well with others, cognitive foresight, etc. The list goes on-and-on.
 
jspeed87 said:
I'm 21. I just started my flight training here in FL. I have about 15 hours. I'm just saying that I would gain more experience flying PIC or right seat 135 cargo then supervising a student in cessna. This is just my opinion.
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Id hate to go against your 15 hours of experience, but your opinion is wrong.

I thought i would make a horrible instructor, but looking back, i was trying to make an excuse not to do it. My instruction time imo, is some of the most valuable time in my logbook. I leanred everything i know from instructing, and i think in some ways, students can teach an instructor more than we can ever teach them.

That said, theres nothing to keep you from flying "hard ifr" with a student. You arent going to get a job with 260 hours, even if it is all multi time. And now days, theres almost no such thing as right seat in 135. Even the operators that are running ATR's or 120's are still wantin at least 1000 hours to sit in the right seat.


It sounds like you already know what you're talking about tho, so go ahead and ignore the 10 pages of advice, and have fun sittin on the couch, unemployed.


EDIT: In the interest of full disclosure, I ended up only having to instruct for about 300 hours. I was lucky enough to get a 135 gig VFR only. (Yes, an actual paying job) I ended up getting my IFR mins after 5 months at that job, because i busted my arse flying over 110 hours each month.

The reason I was lucky enough to get that job? One of the companies pilots came into the airport I was instructing at. Two weeks later i had a job. But yeah, Instructing is useless.
 
Add me to the "do the CFI" crowd. It's not just the flying... it's the decision making and situational awareness skills that you develop by teaching!
 
jspeed87 said:
I don't think I would be doing my job with dedication. Besides I think the experience gained from being a flight instructor is worthless(At least on primary training.). I wanna fly lots of hardcore IFR. That to me would look better on a resume.
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Please dont become an instructor. If you can't dedicate yourself then you are short changing the customer of learning how to fly safely. The industry is in dire need of dedicated professionals.
 
That I im pretty sure alot of people go through these stages in training... like everyone else has stated, give it time, check back in a few ratings.
 
Even if you dont want to be a CFI, you should get the certificate to fall back on (but not at the expense of your students), in case you cant find any other jobs.
 
jspeed87 said:
I've been thinking if I should opt out of the CFI program at my flight school. I'm still working on my PSEL. After looking how unhappy instructors are at my flight school, I myself would not like to instruct just to build time. I think flight instructing should be something you really want to do. I would save about 5k if I opt out and would still have a CMEL with about 260 hours of multi engine time. Do I stand a chence in finding a job back at home in NJ/NY/PA? What job optinons are out there in the tri-state area without a CFI?
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I would'nt rule out the CFI entirely if you have the money to do it. You are still working on your Private and by the time you get to your Commercial, you might find that you may actually enjoy instructing. Besides, it is another good way to sharpen your skills and makes you a better pilot. It also opens up a whole other avenue in aviation that would not be available to you as just a Commercial pilot in this market. This, of course, coming from a 400hr unemployed commercial pilot wishing I could get a CFI but can't afford it.
 
jhugz said:
I am an instructor looking to move on to newer better things. I have no intention of CFI'ing for a career. I do however care about my students and quality of work. Does this make me a POS?
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That in particular? No.
 
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