Salon Mag: Are Pilots Haughty?

[thepotato232]

Didnt Mythbusters have a show where they talked a non-pilot through an autoland on an Airbus sim? Its interesting, referencing the Single Pilot Airliner thread, but I think non-pilots would be in much bigger trouble in the C-402 than in an A320.

Watch that episode again. It looks to me like the "Air Traffic Controller" (sim instructor) is looking not at a mockup of an ATC radar screen as he issues instructions, but at a display showing current, streaming replications of the A320's primary flight instruments as seen by Adam and Jamie. He might as well have been sitting in the instructor's seat in the sim. As we all know, getting the play-by-play from a qualified pilot who can see your every move is more than a little different from the hypothetical "getting talked down" by ATC.

 

[JeffMSU]

But there are large swaths of the flying public that think, theoretically of course, that we're dropped off by a limo, straight to the airplane, press the "Atlanta Button - GO!" button and bitch about the tannins in the espresso as the plane lands itself and taxis to the gate.

Wait...I thought that's all that goes on up there...

Could you imagine the reaction that if I went to a frequent flier website and said, "Yeah, on the jet, I am more important than you because if I trip and fall on the way back to the bathroom and the captain has a heart attack laughing at me, you're all going to die! Even that skilled private pilot in 32C probably can't bring a A320 from cruise flight to approach, configure it for landing and having more than say a 20% of not spreading aluminum, Jet-A, composite material and bloody pulp over a three county area."

People can't handle that!

I don't think people want to hear if something happens to two people up front and there is no commercial pilots sitting in the back that most likely everyone would perish.

The media likes the stories that shows a private/commercial pilot back in the day was able to help land a plane, like the 172 pilot landing a King Air or a Flight Attendant acting as a FO.

 

[derg]

I know they don't like to hear it, but they're toast without the pilots on the flight deck! Toooooooast!

"Airport 75" is purely wishful thinking!

[yt]s8H0Fi6jviQ[/yt]

 

[ColoradoPilot]

I know they don't like to hear it, but they're toast without the pilots on the flight deck! Toooooooast!

"Airport 75" is purely wishful thinking!

[yt]s8H0Fi6jviQ[/yt]

Haha, I used to love this movie. I do find it slightly humerous that the stewardess was able to walk into the cabin unassisted, and hair in great shape, with the ceiling gone and FO just sucked out.

 

[The Fez]

Watch that episode again. It looks to me like the "Air Traffic Controller" (sim instructor) is looking not at a mockup of an ATC radar screen as he issues instructions, but at a display showing current, streaming replications of the A320's primary flight instruments as seen by Adam and Jamie. He might as well have been sitting in the instructor's seat in the sim. As we all know, getting the play-by-play from a qualified pilot who can see your every move is more than a little different from the hypothetical "getting talked down" by ATC.

As I remember, the "controller" was looking at the cockpit displays during their first unassisted attempt. When he talked them down, he was at a different desk. I might be wrong. I'll have to trawl Netflix this weekend and see if I can find that episode.

On the topic, wasn't there a thread about military pilots thinking they were better than everyone not too long ago? It seems that even within the pilot community there are misconceptions about what we do in each field.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm the most humblest man in the WORLD!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah, they got a LOT of help flying the sim on that episode, and it was a modern plane, with everything working. Put them in the DC-9 that I'm flying now, and WAY different story!

This guy did it (and he was one of the few successful ones):
"The Day I Flew For The Airlines"
http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/thedayiflew.htm

cliff
LFW

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I wish people would stop comparing us to doctors. Seriously, if we killed or maimed even half as many people per year as the medical profession, nobody would touch an airplane.

 

[HughesAirwest]

I wish people would stop comparing us to doctors. Seriously, if we killed or maimed even half as many people per year as the medical profession, nobody would touch an airplane.

:clap:

 

[WacoFan]

I wish people would stop comparing us to doctors. Seriously, if we killed or maimed even half as many people per year as the medical profession, nobody would touch an airplane.

But on the flip side, if flying an airliner were as tricky and delicate as removing a brain tumor, or a tumors from around the spine pilots would not only kill more people they would also make $750k per year.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

But on the flip side, if flying an airliner were as tricky and delicate as removing a brain tumor, or a tumors from around the spine pilots would not only kill more people they would also make $750k per year.

If they had to do it 4 or even 8 times a day, the fatality rate would be astounding! People would rather take their chances with the tumor, and not elect to have surgery... So they would end up making nothing.

 

[WacoFan]

If they had to do it 4 or even 8 times a day, the fatality rate would be astounding! People would rather take their chances with the tumor, and not elect to have surgery... So they would end up making nothing.

Many surgeons do multiple procedure per day. There are valid reasons not to compare surgeons and pilots but fatality comparisons aren't one of them. There are waaaay to many variables that go into the medical side of the equation and too many variables on the flying side.

 

[C150J]

Many surgeons do multiple procedure per day. There are valid reasons not to compare surgeons and pilots but fatality comparisons aren't one of them. There are waaaay to many variables that go into the medical side of the equation and too many variables on the flying side.

Totally agree. That being said, I DO think that some of the barriers to becoming an MD are purely designed to limit the supply of physicians and raise wages. If you ask the average GP how often they use organic chemistry on a daily basis, most will groan at the thought of the course and how unnecessary it was. It'd be like us taking high-level meteorology: it would just reduce the number of professional pilots, not necessarily make us "better." Of course, making such courses mandatory will also weed out "weak" candidates (and, unfortunately, some that would be great MDs.)

J.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Many surgeons do multiple procedure per day. There are valid reasons not to compare surgeons and pilots but fatality comparisons aren't one of them. There are waaaay to many variables that go into the medical side of the equation and too many variables on the flying side.

You know it's funny, but the medical profession is actually trying to introduce things from the aviation world. On of my friends who's an ob-gyn is always giving me crap because his company is trying to make them use checklists for procedures, as well as take what amounts to crm courses. A large portion of what he has done in that regards has come from the learnings of aviation.

He always said that the human body was too dynamic to put into a checklist, (much like pilots used to) but now agrees that the mistakes and errors in the or have been reduced.

That being said, we do have a much better safety record

 

[popaviator]

Totally agree. That being said, I DO think that some of the barriers to becoming an MD are purely designed to limit the supply of physicians and raise wages. If you ask the average GP how often they use organic chemistry on a daily basis, most will groan at the thought of the course and how unnecessary it was. It'd be like us taking high-level meteorology: it would just reduce the number of professional pilots, not necessarily make us "better." Of course, making such courses mandatory will also weed out "weak" candidates (and, unfortunately, some that would be great MDs.)

J.

I agree, and while becoming a professional pilot is no easy task, I feel as though there are hurdles that sometimes seem unnescesary. An example of this would be hour requirements. I understand the numbers equate to experience in some respect, but who's to say a 1200 hour pilot is any better than a 1150 hour pilot. Another example would be the long road to becoming an airline captain. This made me think of an old posting from calcapt. "Actually, we are quite fortunate in that 90 percent of those who start this journey will be lost in the process. Those are the ones who will watch football, play video games or take a nap instead of going to the airport and learning something new. We will only be competing against the remaining 10 percent when it comes time to apply for those coveted flight positions." This is in retrospect to "weeding" candidates from the medical field. I'm sure there are better comparisons to be made between the medical field and aviation, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Boris Badenov]

who's to say a 1200 hour pilot is any better than a 1150 hour pilot.

Why, look, it's a dead horse. Phasers on vaporize. I think you're taking this a little personally (as many seem to). It's not a question of whether the 1200 hour pilot is a better human being or pilot than the 1150 hour guy, it's a question of which, given limited information, is LIKELY to be the better pilot (and human being ). Insurance companies are neither stupid nor inexperienced...they've been doing this for a long time and they use the metrics they use for a reason. Also, I've yet to see a company that would take a 10,000 hour guy who's flown his LSA in circles watching the air go by over a 5,000 hour guy who's got four types and a moon landing. There is no Conspiracy. Relax, you'll get there.

"Those are the ones who will watch football, play video games or take a nap instead of going to the airport and learning something new.

Far be it from me to argue with Calcapt on how to get to the majors, since he's obviously there and I'm obviously not. But in my experience guys who occasionally took a nap, played a video game, or, say, went to the opera or for a hike or developed a hobby or...you get the idea... are way more fun to be around than guys who have spent their entire lives living Airplanes. Balance, people. Aviation Appliance =/ Life.

 

[Callador]

Didnt Mythbusters have a show where they talked a non-pilot through an autoland on an Airbus sim? Its interesting, referencing the Single Pilot Airliner thread, but I think non-pilots would be in much bigger trouble in the C-402 than in an A320.

I saw that one... but you are talking about an Airbus!!!

When you jump in they say, "I'm completely operational and all my circuits are functioning perfectly."

And when you try to land by yourself, "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that!" If things get real bad, the "sentient" processor ejects!

 

[bunk22]

I think the general public is too doofus to realize that pilots have a certain skillset that was developed with training, experience and well, circumstance that they cannot understand.

Not that we're going neurosurgery, but it's not like I'm about to tell a doctor that all he's got to do is crack the skull, pull out the cancerous polyp, tell the nurses to "close 'em up" and cash a fat check.

But there are large swaths of the flying public that think, theoretically of course, that we're dropped off by a limo, straight to the airplane, press the "Atlanta Button - GO!" button and bitch about the tannins in the espresso as the plane lands itself and taxis to the gate.

Could you imagine the reaction that if I went to a frequent flier website and said, "Yeah, on the jet, I am more important than you because if I trip and fall on the way back to the bathroom and the captain has a heart attack laughing at me, you're all going to die! Even that skilled private pilot in 32C probably can't bring a A320 from cruise flight to approach, configure it for landing and having more than say a 20% of not spreading aluminum, Jet-A, composite material and bloody pulp over a three county area."

People can't handle that!

I think people think of flying, landing, taking-off, whatever, as doing it during nice, clear, blue sky conditions. Experienced pilots have done those things at night, at night in bad weather, during the day in bad weather, adverse winds, etc. I've put folks in the simulator, set them up and they trap on the aircraft carrier. Not going to happen without practice and experience in the real thing.

 

[CaptBill]

Far be it from me to argue with Calcapt on how to get to the majors, since he's obviously there and I'm obviously not. But in my experience guys who occasionally took a nap, played a video game, or, say, went to the opera or for a hike or developed a hobby or...you get the idea... are way more fun to be around than guys who have spent their entire lives living Airplanes. Balance, people. Aviation Appliance =/ Life.

Pure insubordination Boris...:laff:

I actually agree with you that balance is essential. Occasional is the key word as you said. I have an extended family member that talks incessantly about being an airline pilot yet is unwilling to dedicate himself to the process. I think he has 7 or 8 hours in the past year or two and he acts as though he will be flying as my FO in no time at all. Becoming a professional pilot is more about dedication and commitment than anything else. An occasional video game or lazy day is OK.

 

[LV-ARG]

Thanks for posting this, Doug. Nothing incenses me more than those "on the outside looking in" taking potshots at others' professions. From construction to brain surgery, every field of work has its challenges and demands meticulous attention to detail. I also hate it when those in our own ranks make "flying is so easy" statements, as they've completely failed to recall all the effort it takes to get to their current seat. They have obviously never been in a training department trying to teach someone a new airplane, or are just clueless (as some incident reports I read sometimes suggest!).


With my luck, I think a more realistic scenario for non-pilots would be diverting due to a contaminated runway, only to run low on fuel and have to shoot an approach below mins to ANOTHER contaminated runway.

J.

Flying is the easy part, doing it safely is a whole different matter.

 

[Boris Badenov]

i actually agree with you that balance is essential. Etc etc.

You may live!