Realistically, what do you want?

[derg]

DO you get the feeling that "Rolling Thunder" was an unintended consequence on the company's part? I seriously doubt they thought that the ability for a reserve to pick up flying on a day off, get that day off back, and get the block on top of guarantee was good for them. I sure miss the 130-150 hour paychecks for 50-60 hours of actual flying.

Indeed.

I like the senior guys up in JFK that bid reserve because there was a "rumor" of a staffing issue, it didn't come to fruition and they're upset because they're sitting.... RESERVE!

One of the pilots from my new hire class was complaining and I had to remind him, "Remember when Norb West said 'won' wot choo beed and beed wot choo won'?"

 

[BajtheJino]

Well, let's not kid ourselves.

We are in a class struggle

This kind of thinking will always keep you feeling inadequate and angry.
I, for one, am happy being a middle class American. My job at a 121 airline will guarantee me that I will, by definition, be upper middle class.

 

[surreal1221]

No reason for that cheap shot.

They're the cream of the crop. They're also, largely, under appreciated. They are the best of the best, and have achieved it by following through a plan of action that is better* than us.

* As stated by Bajthejino in a different thread

This kind of thinking will always keep you feeling inadequate and angry.
I, for one, am happy being a middle class American. My job at a 121 airline will guarantee me that I will, by definition, be upper middle class.

There you go again.

The wonderful prognosticator of everything.

How exactly does the acknowledgment of the struggle between labor and non-labor indicate any amount of inadequacy or anger? Further, the use of always seems like quite a certainty, what about those people who are not always angry or inadequate in your eyes?

 

[JoelT]

Last month I did 80 hours of actual block time while on reserve. That is by far the most I have ever done while at Delta. However, last July I got 120 hours with Rolling Thunder. This summer is shaping up to be just as good.

Back to the crux of the matter. I am one of the junior-ist guys in my category (ATL 767 domestic) and although I am six from the bottom life ain't too bad on reserve. I live in base so if I fly more, great. I get paid more. If I never fly, great as well. Then, I get to spend more time with the family. Win-win for me.

Now, once (or even, if) I get displaced up to JFK ER I will be a line holder. I purposefully bid that because I can hold a line and not have to commute to reserve. I wanted JFK ER over ATL -88 because although I can hold a line in both categories I prefer the QOL on the ER. Short-haul just wears me out. I would just rather commute.

Now, I am going to get some tacos and beer in a couple hours.

 

[surreal1221]

Beer? O RLY?

 

[derg]

They're the cream of the crop. They're also, largely, under appreciated. They are the best of the best, and have achieved it by following through a plan of action that is better* than us.

Not necessary, man, not necessary.

 

[Alchemy]

More days off. The more I'm not at work, the more I enjoy the job. When I am at work, I want better duty rigs to give the company some incentive to increase trip productivity. Working 12 hours for 3 hours of pay is tiring, annoying, and demoralizing.

And this is a biggie, no more security hassles. Some days I have to go through security 3 times, and I want to pull my hair out.

I would also like a more streamlined way of revising manuals. I do hours of unpaid work every month in jepp revisions, FOM revisions, and CFM revisions. Then I get jumped on during recurrent if my "pen and ink notations" aren't in exactly the right spot for the correction.

Maybe not a biggie at other places, but a properly run crew scheduling department would be a huge plus.....you know, one that doesn't involve 75 minute hold times during weather events, and perhaps one that will contact you with schedule modifications rather than putting the impetus on YOU to figure it out (and then you get disciplined if something gets lost in translation).

 

[400A]

Well, let's not kid ourselves.

We (airline pilots specifically, sorry can't speak to all the hot stud 135 whizzkids) are in a class struggle, that of labor vs. non-labor.

It is what it is and we best not drop the ball in trying to bring what we feel is rightfully ours considering our level of productivity that provides the posh lifestyles our management folk enjoy.

135 has the same "class" struggle with mgt vs the pilots. Problem being, some 135 companies don't have a seniority system, so you can imagine the crap that goes on.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

Great thread..... Even though Im only 1 year and 3 months in 121 flying, I LOVE the idea of at LEAST 8 hours AT the hotel.

 

[BajtheJino]

better*

* As stated by Bajthejino in a different thread

If you have a problem with me why don't you just block my posts, or bring it to PMs or better yet grown up and move on. You seem incapable of standing behind your own posts. You bring up a point, a counter point is made, you cower and instead of hashing out differences you made juvenile comments like this, repeatedly.
Does it make you feel like a man?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

There is a huge difference in QOL between the junior and senior guys in this industry and in my experience there are few senior guys who truly care. As I'm sure you know at my company there was recently a vote on whether to establish a fund to help out the guys who are furloughed. Hardly anyone voted and it passed. I can't enter the pilot lounge without hearing one of our OFC's (Old Fat Captains) bitching and moaning about "its my money, I earned it, they should have been prepared to be furloughed...when I was junior, blah blah blah". I just recnetly recieved my invoice for that and it was something just shy of $4.

I heard about that, and it's absolutely disgraceful. But that's a big difference than spreading the misery on reserve. The idea should be that the senior guys assist in getting good reserve work rules, not that they have to suffer reserve for the rest of their careers with everyone else.

How long did you sit reserve as an FO at Pinnacle? As a CA?

Five months as an FO, none as a Captain. I sat for almost two years at AirTran.

What I don't like (and find EXTREMELY offensive) is guys who make the comment "well, you won't be on reserve for ever so let's not spend any negotiating capital on improving reserve life". That's great. Let's screw the junior guy. I think that in a perfect world reserve should be so good that senior guys would bid it to get extra days off.

:yeahthat:

And just so you all know, I'm not the junior guy who benefits the most from this. I'm in the top 25% of my pilot group.

And just so you know, I'm in the bottom 20% of my pilot group, so I do stand to benefit from such a system. I still don't support it, though, because I know it's not right for the senior guys and it isn't right for anyone in the long-term.

 

[jynxyjoe]

If you have a problem with me why don't you just block my posts, or bring it to PMs or better yet grown up and move on. You seem incapable of standing behind your own posts. You bring up a point, a counter point is made, you cower and instead of hashing out differences you made juvenile comments like this, repeatedly.
Does it make you feel like a man?

I'd say the last thing he is doing is cowering.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Five months as an FO, none as a Captain. I sat for almost two years at AirTran.

Must have been nice. I'm approaching your AirTran reserve sit time wise...

 

[JoelT]

Must have been nice. I'm approaching your AirTran reserve sit time wise...

Just so you know, I am not picking on you or your post personally. It was just a convenient time to hit the quote button.

Here is the real deal, reserve is AWESOME! Not that sitting reserve is great it is that it causes the stars to align that end up potentially helping your career. You might not see it now but, if you (not you but, you know, the hypothetical "you") stick it out in the biz long enough you will see that there become other windfalls to the current reserve system.

This is the biggy and, it is the secret that I don't want anyone else at Delta Air Lines to find out about. In fact, I give misinformation about it when asked. If so many folks did not want to sit reserve I would NEVER have been able to hold a 767 FO position right out of new-hire school let alone an international one. Also, with a seniority number of 11600ish I would never have been less than a 1000 numbers from holding a captain slot without the reserve system we have today.

Reserve causes positions within the airline that have higher pay that would normally go senior all of sudden become VERY junior. It is the reason why I will make $100,000 on third year pay. No way could I do that if I was an MD-88 FO which is where my seniority number should have me. Ask the junior CAL 737 captains how they were able to get awarded it in three years.

 

[Cptnchia]

If so many folks did not want to sit reserve I would NEVER have been able to hold a 767 FO position right out of new-hire school let alone an international one.

The reason that you could hold the ER as a new hire wasn't because no one wanted to sit reserve, it was because guys like me, 2001 hire, didn't want to sit reserve for 8 SCs, and basically no more money an hour over domestic. It just wasn't worth my time to fly the ER. Now with the pay changes and a little less oenerous SC situation, I'm ATL ER.

Also, with a seniority number of 11600ish I would never have been less than a 1000 numbers from holding a captain slot without the reserve system we have today.

Wait, what? Is that your new SL number? And you are 1000 from a captain's slot now?

[/QUOTE]

 

[kellwolf]

The key (at least here at 9E) is closing the loopholes that scheduling exploits to make RSV a living hell for everyone involved. We've got guys coming up on the 2 year mark on the CA side (I'm over a year myself), and we've got FOs that have never seen a line b/c they've been on RSV their entire time here....and that's coming up on all FOs hired in 2008 just about. Ask Rex what the percentage of RSVs is in ATL. I don't have the numbers, but it's HIGH.

The problem is, scheduling has started taking the "Well, if you can't show in the contract where it says we CAN'T do it, that means we CAN" route. They're re-writing things as they go, and the amount of grievances out for scheduling issue with reserve guys would make the mail bag scene in Miracle on 34th St look small.

Sure, reserve would probably be great with the right rules. Too bad those places aren't regional airlines.

 

[surreal1221]

if you have a problem with me why don't you just block my posts, or bring it to pms or better yet grown up and move on. You seem incapable of standing behind your own posts. You bring up a point, a counter point is made, you cower and instead of hashing out differences you made juvenile comments like this, repeatedly.
Does it make you feel like a man?

Getting sensitive now huh?

Does it make me feel like a man? haha. . .Nice retort.

Nevertheless, don't forget it was you Kind Sir, who decided YOU had made the "better" path in aviation than the rest of us. Or, are you now retracting from that statement?

And now it's my fault that I reference it where needed? Perhaps you shouldn't have made such a ridiculous statement without providing any sort of additional information to actually support your claim to better-ness.

So you did it better than someone else. What exactly is your definition of better? Have you yet to realize the clear subjective nature of that statement and how it can not be used in the manner in which you felt the need to use it in? Nah, you'll continue to defend your notion of being better than the rest of us for your own self-enjoyment.

Cheers.

 

[derg]

Good grief man, you're posting angry. And you know how that makes you look when you post angry.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

everyone should just chill out, or Obama will pop a cap in your posterior.

 

[surreal1221]

Good grief man, you're posting angry. And you know how that makes you look when you post angry.

Well DT, you're wrong.

I'd just like to know what quantifies taking the better path in Bajthejino's mind.

Which, he failed to tell all of us in a previous post.

I received the brunt of his initial wrath, and I'd hate for someone else to also feel it because they didn't follow his "better" path to success in aviation. So, without causing any further frustration, I think it'd be best if he told us all how to best achieve the same results so that we don't feel like sub-standard pilots in his eyes.

Just because Ppragman and I have made better decisions than you when it comes to flying don't hate, man. Its very unbecoming.

If he'd actually tell all of us how to achieve this better path, it'd save a lot of people some frustration knowing that they've lived up to the standards set by Bajthejino.

Anger? Nah, not a drop. His silly "her panties in a wad," "...feel like a man?" statements stink of far more anger than any of my questions.