Realistically, what do you want?
- Thread starter FlyChicaga
- Start date
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
I thought of something else...once again reserve related.
I'm on long call (12 hour call out) and they converted me to short call (2 hours). So I'm getting ready to hop a Pinnacle flight so I can go to ATL sit short call from 7:45pm to midnight. It appears the chances of me being used aren't very high. I don't mind having to go to ATL (though I'd rather not) but I don't want to go there and do nothing. 2 months ago they converted me to short call for 4 days in a row and didn't use me despite my "call me first" status.
I'm not sure of the best solution, but maybe make it so that if they pull you off of 12 hour call out they have to use you for something.
I'm on long call (12 hour call out) and they converted me to short call (2 hours). So I'm getting ready to hop a Pinnacle flight so I can go to ATL sit short call from 7:45pm to midnight. It appears the chances of me being used aren't very high. I don't mind having to go to ATL (though I'd rather not) but I don't want to go there and do nothing. 2 months ago they converted me to short call for 4 days in a row and didn't use me despite my "call me first" status.
I'm not sure of the best solution, but maybe make it so that if they pull you off of 12 hour call out they have to use you for something.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that this is one of the things our local is looking to take care of if we bring PBS on property prior to our amendable date.
Taking and turning Long Call reserve individuals into short call for the last 7 days of a month is absolutely ridiculous and it shouldn't be happening every month to every LCR individual.
It's to the point they're just doing it because they can, which was not the intent (so I was told by PD and CM) of the language. Also wasn't the intent to turn every LCR into SCR just for the hell of it for 7 days straight.
Hootie
Old Skool
All I ask is that don't make me get on a van at 4:30 am and then expect me to actually be awake at 11pm the next day. I've been thinking about alerting the FAA on this one, it's not safe. I think my company has it's stuff figured out, but this issue they blatently abuse. Also the FAR's drop the ball on the required rest issue. It should state 8 hours behind doors at a hotel. Instead it is open to interpretation which means 6:30 at the hotel and 5:30 in bed with the other hour and a half spent resting through security, on the van, waiting for the van. Other than that I have plenty of days off and never feel like I couldn't call in sick. Pension? Retirement? WTF is that!!!
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Yeah, I don't mind being used. I don't even mind being converted (occasionally) if we really need it. But it doesn't seem to make sense to bring me out here to sit short call for 4 hours and 15 mins.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Right, like most people.
It's just when they do it every month (for the past 8 months), just because they can.
Gets a little ridiculous, but that's nothing new from our crew scheduling. But, our NC left the door open and the loophole(s) in place so that they can abuse the LCR people the last 7 days of every month.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Got one for ya. Looks like one of our ATL guys is scheduled to DHed to SAT then DH back to ATL. That's it. No flying. Apparently, they're DHing them there just in case something happens with the SAT-ATL flight. Yeah, THERE'S an efficient use of a RSV.....
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Well if you've got 50% of your guys on reserve, you might as well have a backup for every flight.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Oh boy.
"happens?"
Like what, the other "crewmember" times out? Only logical reason I can find.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Haha, that sucks. Actually yesterday when I flew the pcl flight to ATL they had a mechanic riding along for the ATL -LIT round trip
ross9238
Well-Known Member
For QOL purposes I bid reserve even though I could hold a line. What I would like to see different is an increase of the LCR report time frame. Instead of it being 12 hours, increase it to about 14 hours. This gives adequate time for the commuters to be able to make it and not have a period when they are on call where it's doubtful if they'll make the report time with the current 12 hours. I commute out of PHL and from 7-8pm is the gray area for me, that if they call me with exactly 12 hours of report, I won't be able to make it. I won't be able to catch the late flight and the early flight won't make the report time. It hasn't happened yet which doesn't mean that it won't happen.
As far as senior guys holding a reserve line/day somewhere in a year, I can't say that I think it's a bad idea except that it won't work here in the US. I would also have to agree with Velo,ATN and others about the seniority. (I know this is going to sound corny but I'll just mention it nonetheless). Everyone starts out being a freshman but as the years progress, they'll also end up as a senior. What needs to be done (like others have mentioned) is to improve the QOL of those who are junior and on reserve. It is also vital that the senior pilot group of any airline recognize its junior pilot group when it comes time for negotations.
Hopefully, all that made sense.
As far as senior guys holding a reserve line/day somewhere in a year, I can't say that I think it's a bad idea except that it won't work here in the US. I would also have to agree with Velo,ATN and others about the seniority. (I know this is going to sound corny but I'll just mention it nonetheless). Everyone starts out being a freshman but as the years progress, they'll also end up as a senior. What needs to be done (like others have mentioned) is to improve the QOL of those who are junior and on reserve. It is also vital that the senior pilot group of any airline recognize its junior pilot group when it comes time for negotations.
Hopefully, all that made sense.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Exactly! I've been double-deadheaded to BOS, MEM, and almost CVG. Single deadheads to MEM when they KNOW the crewmember won't make the morning flight. When you've got 41 reserves you can afford to waste them...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Do you guys get full pay for deadheads?
We did, so while I felt like I was wasting my time on deadheads, it paid out pretty well! The best was when we diverted on the way into Newark! Man that was a good day, I think I made 6 hours of pay for sitting in the back of the plane.
We did, so while I felt like I was wasting my time on deadheads, it paid out pretty well! The best was when we diverted on the way into Newark! Man that was a good day, I think I made 6 hours of pay for sitting in the back of the plane.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Nope dh's are paid at 50%, and I'm on reserve so it doesn't matter.... we have issues with the deadheads even being credited, but since I'm not even going to break guarantee I'm not wasting my time with payroll...
Our new contract only has 75% DH pay I think
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Well, to be honest, at least your guys notice when crew members will time out.
God love our crew schedulers. We, largely, have to tell them when we are going to time out when we are on active assignments. Sitting ready reserve and they give me an assignment at hour 12, I make it all the way out to the plane, and of course something happens. They'll call me off it faster than they called me in the morning to get to work.
But, if we're on an active assignment away from Atlanta. Cheese and Rice.
Had an FA come 1 minute from timing out because they refused to send a reserve FA as a DH from Atlanta out to Tulsa to replace her one evening.
Contract!? What's that! Poor gals.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
You're giving them much to much credit there, dude. They just have the fear of God (Delta) instilled in them. We've all been given the scare tactic that if we don't help each other out, we'll lose the Delta flying.
Case in point.... CVG in January, 6 AM report in MEM. Flew to CVG and had a 3 hour sit.... or so we thought... well we grab lunch around noon and I notice that our DCA turn is cancelled.... next flight on the pairing is at 7 PM or so. Call up scheduling, tell them I want a day room because our middle out-and-back is cancelled, and of course, we get it, but they had no clue. Approaching time to get back to the airport, I call up dispatch and tell them that it's probably not even a good idea to do this flight, since the freezing rain and ice is so thick that our holdover time won't get us to the runway in time.... nope, no such luck, go to the airport. So I get to the airport and just for giggles log into crew trac.... well turns out they adjusted my time so that I was legal for another 16 hours.... they release me at 10 AM instead of 1 PM even though they had no idea until 1 that I was in rest.... I tell them, no you WILL change it to the time I call you, and now we don't have legal rest so I'm ticking down on my 16 hours (well, 15.5).... so me and the CA start getting the plane ready, and people start boarding.... get to the before start check where we check out altimeters, and they are 800 feet off and climbing, from each other. Call out MX, this delays the flight for about an hour or so while they clear out the P/S sys which had water in it.... Now, the schedulers call and ask the CA if I want to waive my contractual 15.5 hour duty day.... I say, "no" and tell her that we should tell scheduling and dispatch to cancel because de-ice will take 50 minutes or so with the amount of ice on the plane - hey, I've had this much before, it took that long, so that's where I get my number... dispatch says, "no way it'll take that long", give it a shot. So, we're finally pushed and leaving toward the de-ice pad with a 20 minute limit.... if it exceeds 20 minutes my 15.5 hours will be up. In the meantime, the company calls an FO to stand at the gate at the ready to replace me just in case.... As the minutes tick by, right up to 20 minutes of de-icing (and yes, they run out of fluid), we get an ACARS: "will Rex waive the 15.5 hours???" ; "No." Eventually, 45 minutes or so later, it becomes immaterial as we finish de-ice and have to taxi back to the gate and cancel, because the FA's and myself are timed out....
$imply the Be$t!
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Hehe, nice. Kinda reminds me of one day when we figured that I was getting somewhat close to timing out, but that unless something delayed us for 30 mins or so I'd be fine. So while we're taxiing out (in ATL) we get an ACARS saying "Your new FO is (insert name here), will send an amended release".
So we stop on the ramp and I call up the company and they said "you're about to time out! Turn around and come back!" I've learned that if something doesn't seem right, its usually me who messed it up. So I tell them to hold on while I run the numbers again. I get the same time, tell them what I got and he goes "oh...right. Ok, have a good flight".
I've also seen them send a new captain out to a flight that was just about to leave because the captain was about to time out...he had no clue.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I watch that stuff like a hawk b/c I don't trust scheduling to do it. If I violate FAA duty times, it's MY butt, too. If I violate contractual limits, I'm giving the company WAY too much, especially during negotiations.
In Rex's situation, the SMART thing to do would have been to remove him and just put the other FO on the flight instead of pleading for him to waive the duty limit. It's not going to cost the company any more money since neither of them is gonna break guarantee, and the flight wouldn't have been canceled. One less flight canceled means a higher completion factor, higher completion factor means Delta's happy, if Delta's happy everyone (or most everyone) is happy. Instead, the company took the "penny pincher" route (which didn't pinch any pennies, ironically) and f'ed themselves. No doubt, if we lose flying b/c of decisions like this, they'll still try to blame it on the pilots for not taking one for the team and waiving our contract rights.....
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
A contract is a contract.
If either party can't live up to the terms, then they shouldn't have signed it in the first place.
If either party can't live up to the terms, then they shouldn't have signed it in the first place.