Realistically, what do you want?

Thats probably one of the advantages of the pay structure of my company compared to 121 carriers. Since it's sort of salaried, it really doesnt matter if we sit reserve or go fly. We still get paid the same. The most senior people actually bid the reserve lines! Everywhere but CVG, reserve usually calls for you to go sit at the airport for 5-6hrs. As long as no one calls in sick or nothing breaks, you are released and can go home after sitting in the pilot lounge for a few hours. Those used to be the easiest work days ever!
 
I completely agree that once you make it off reserve you shouldn't have to go sit it any more. I sat reserve for just under 2 years as an FO and I've spent the last year as the most junior CA in my base. Needless to say, it's sucked. That said, I don't think it's fair for me to somehow artificially get a line while some senior guy has to sit reserve.

What I don't like (and find EXTREMELY offensive) is guys who make the comment "well, you won't be on reserve for ever so let's not spend any negotiating capital on improving reserve life". That's great. Let's screw the junior guy. I think that in a perfect world reserve should be so good that senior guys would bid it to get extra days off.
 
I have no doubt that, when recalled, I'll be sitting reserve for at least another year.

But, so long as our scheduling language doesn't change - I could care less.

If I want to fly a lot, I can.

If I want to sit at home and get paid, I can.
 
It's funny..I always thought Pro-Union/Democrat types would be in favor of "Leveling the playing field..." You know, taking from those that have to help those who have a little less. I guess that doesn't apply when it takes out of their pockets right?
 
Not to turn this into a political discussion, but I think you are confusing "Democrat" with "Socialist" just like all the tea party people.

Unionism is all about hierarchy.
 
Baronman said:
It's funny..I always thought Pro-Union/Democrat types would be in favor of "Leveling the playing field..." You know, taking from those that have to help those who have a little less. I guess that doesn't apply when it takes out of their pockets right?
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Good point. It's interesting that the two union men in this discussion are the most adament against "leveling the playing field".

One month per year on reserve. Everybody does it regardless of seniority. Maybe two weeks twice per year. Something so that the junior guys at stagnant companies don't have to spend years or decades on reserve. Also good so that junior guys can get the good trips a few times per year.

Seniority still gets you your aircraft type, base, and longevity pay, but all else is spread fairly among the pilot group.

Let's hear some more, " I got mine, screw you " arguments to refute the fairness of what I propose.

And just so you all know, I'm not the junior guy who benefits the most from this. I'm in the top 25% of my pilot group.



Typhoonpilot
 
There's no way on earth I'm going to sit reserve to "spread the wealth".

From my perspective, I usually wait until I'm fairly senior on an airplane before bidding it. More seniority means better schedules, better QOL and no reserve.

Just because you can hold the left seat or a more senior aircraft doesn't necessarily mean you should bid it.
 
typhoonpilot,

I really respect your input on this site. Even when I disagree with you, such as the reserve idea.

Now, granted, you've lived under it at EK, and I haven't.

That being said, I think it's a bad idea. I'm all for PBS, and set up in a manner that helps everyone.

Let's say the rules on reserve are of a utopian nature. It's a 2 day call out, they buy you a ticket to where you need to go, and you can turn down any assignment you want.

The kicker is pay. On reserve, at somewhere other than a commuter, you will rarely break guarantee, where as a lineholder you can bid lines that give you another 15 or 20 or more hours of pay.

Why is it OK to bid an aircraft and seat on seniority, which most of us do for pay, but not bid a schedule based on seniority that allows you to make above guarantee?

So say I have a 65 hour guarantee, but I am able to hold 90 hours of pay credit a month.

So you're taking money out of the senior guy's pocket?

Doesn't make sense....
 
Reserve is a part of the game. I don't think I'm willing give up a line to help spread the wealth. Rather I'd like to see the reserve guys just make more and have a better QOL. Copy the Mainline rules about reserve. 12 hour callouts and such. some companies (jetblue or spirit?) had reserve at 80 credit hours and line guys at 75. That would be fine for me.
 
Why is there a notion of "spreading the wealth" around?

We all knew that we would be working under a seniority based system. Deal with it, or well - turn your ID and books in.

Big deal, move on to the fish that might actually feed the tribe.
 
surreal1221 said:
Why is there a notion of "spreading the wealth" around?

We all knew that we would be working under a seniority based system. Deal with it, or well - turn your ID and books in.

Big deal, move on to the fish that might actually feed the tribe.
Click to expand...

Wanting to implement "wealth redistribution" :D
 
Well, let's not kid ourselves.

We (airline pilots specifically, sorry can't speak to all the hot stud 135 whizzkids) are in a class struggle, that of labor vs. non-labor.

It is what it is and we best not drop the ball in trying to bring what we feel is rightfully ours considering our level of productivity that provides the posh lifestyles our management folk enjoy.
 
Doug Taylor said:
There's no way on earth I'm going to sit reserve to "spread the wealth".

From my perspective, I usually wait until I'm fairly senior on an airplane before bidding it. More seniority means better schedules, better QOL and no reserve.

Just because you can hold the left seat or a more senior aircraft doesn't necessarily mean you should bid it.
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So reserve is so bad that you will try to avoid it at all costs. That actually says something right there, doesn't it?

Luckily you are senior enough to avoid it, but how about those not so fortunate? What if you got hired right before the hiring stopped? Lots of people in that boat. No choice on what aircraft or seat they are in, they are simple stuck on reserve.

Why should some guys perpetually get good schedules just because they were born a few years earlier? You all work at the same company and have the same title. You're no better than the guy hired a week after you, or a year, or five years. You get paid roughly the same ( small steps for longevity aside ). So how is it fair that schedules can be so vastly different?


Typhoonpilot
 
I actually agree with Typhoonpilot here. Since my computer has the "blue screen of death," I can't add a lengthy reply. I do see merit in his side of the argument.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Just because you can hold the left seat or a more senior aircraft doesn't necessarily mean you should bid it.
Click to expand...

I've always thought that would be my philosophy when I eventually make the jump to a carrier with multiple types.

I have always placed a lot of importance on QOL. Our contract at XJT is pretty decent in that department when compared to other regionals. My biggest gripe is with the whole junior manning and "reassignment after trip termination" that our contract allows for line holders. The reassignment after trip termination at our company has a history of getting out of control.

I also like the idea of "minimum 8 hours behind the door." However I believe this should be an FAA reg not a contract provision.
 
Cptnchia said:
We could go to the concept of "A" days like the flight attendants. I'm sure that will go over real well.:sarcasm:
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Oh HELL no!

I'm sitting back, fat dumb and happy in the left seat of the mad dog in JFK with a line, and Johnny Fire In His Pants to Upgrade, is the plug, I'm not sitting around "The Kew" for a week twiddling my thumbs and naming the mice for him! ;)


Nooooo way.
 
typhoonpilot said:
So reserve is so bad that you will try to avoid it at all costs. That actually says something right there, doesn't it?

Luckily you are senior enough to avoid it, but how about those not so fortunate? What if you got hired right before the hiring stopped? Lots of people in that boat. No choice on what aircraft or seat they are in, they are simple stuck on reserve.

Why should some guys perpetually get good schedules just because they were born a few years earlier? You all work at the same company and have the same title. You're no better than the guy hired a week after you, or a year, or five years. You get paid roughly the same ( small steps for longevity aside ). So how is it fair that schedules can be so vastly different?


Typhoonpilot
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's luck that I'm not on reserve, it's just waiting to move up to another airplane when the seniority fit my lifestyle, rather than the moment I could bid it. I sat senior in a lot of low-paying aircraft so I could control my quality of life. I'm just not a seat and airplane chaser, I like to be at home and have enough time not to have to think about work.

I could have held the ER years ago, but didn't want to sit reserve. I could have also held the MD-88 captain seat years ago, but didn't want to sit reserve.

If you're flying a small- medium-sized carrier with a single fleet type it might be a good benefit. But it also opens a big pandora's box for the company to play the quid pro quo game between seniority groups.

But when you apply that to a carrier with varying fleet types, a number of bases and a broader amount of choice of bidding aircraft, bases and seats, it's seriously not a universal benefit.

Additionally, at my airline, seniority doesn't always dictate if you'll be on reserve or not. Lots of senior guys bid reserve in order to not fly very often OR manipulate the system vis-a-vis "Rolling Thunder" as they call it. Theoretically, if you're sufficiently senior, bid reserve in a month that coverage is thin, you can pull down paychecks in the right seat of the ER that rivals the guy in the left seat by far.

Reserve, in itself, it's an anathema, but the work rules surrounding how a company can contractually treat their reserve pilots is the issue. Improve the reserve work rules.

12 to 18-hour long call, a number of limited 8-hour call days, improve offline deadheading, full-pay for the scheduled rotation, yadda yadda yadda. That's how you fix it. Create an incentive to bid reserve rather than leave it broken and dole it out to everyone fleet-wide.

If I've got to sit a reserve day when I'm senior, I'd like the ability to transfer that Nigerian layover to a reserve pilot! :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
Additionally, at my airline, seniority doesn't always dictate if you'll be on reserve or not. Lots of senior guys bid reserve in order to not fly very often OR manipulate the system vis-a-vis "Rolling Thunder" as they call it. Theoretically, if you're sufficiently senior, bid reserve in a month that coverage is thin, you can pull down paychecks in the right seat of the ER that rivals the guy in the left seat by far.
Click to expand...


DO you get the feeling that "Rolling Thunder" was an unintended consequence on the company's part? I seriously doubt they thought that the ability for a reserve to pick up flying on a day off, get that day off back, and get the block on top of guarantee was good for them. I sure miss the 130-150 hour paychecks for 50-60 hours of actual flying.
 
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