RAH to operate E-190s for Midwest

[Polar742]

I don't expect any RAH pilots to actually do this, though. Me thinks the lady doth protest TOO much.

No reason for these kinds of comments. Especially from someone who fancies themselves a leader....

Why would any person want to change to support, or otherwise, agree with someone who insults them relentlessly?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Why would any person want to change to support, or otherwise, agree with someone who insults them relentlessly?

I'll admit personally that him and few other zealots around here have made me pretty much anti-ALPA. It kinda sucks, because I THOUGHT they were a great organization. But, if these are the leaders, I want no part of it.

 

[derg]

That's what I'm talking about folks. It's message and delivery.

You can wreck an important message with angry, caustic delivery and lose an audience.

 

[Polar742]

I'll admit personally that him and few other zealots around here have made me pretty much anti-ALPA. It kinda sucks, because I THOUGHT they were a great organization. But, if these are the leaders, I want no part of it.

I've got much respect for you for bringing the discussion. I've made my stance pretty clear.

However, at Polar and my short tenure with ALPA, the political scene (which my personal profile of the organization that was generated at the regional level) didn't change from what was in my mind conceptually, the personal benefit of the union was great. A real refreshing break from the IBT.

Our local leadership was top-notch, and the participation of the pilot group was pretty good. We had more people involved with a 200 some pilot seniority list than we had at CHQ with the 1800 some pilots when I left.

Just like every other massive organization, or really anything in life, it has it great, good and crap attributes, and really is what you make of it. There are some outstanding leaders and there are some horrible leaders.

 

[kellwolf]

Delta? Was it their last bankruptcy? USAir as well right? United? Northwest? Continental just hasn't had a bankruptcy that has coincided with the current lineup of 70-100 seat RJs.

NWA was in bankruptcy at the time, BUT the pilots agreed to the scope relief as well as the creation of Compass. But I'm sure if something happened, it woulda been entirely the regional guys faults for working there with no blame for the guys at the top giving up the scope.

I'll admit personally that him and few other zealots around here have made me pretty much anti-ALPA. It kinda sucks, because I THOUGHT they were a great organization. But, if these are the leaders, I want no part of it.

It still is a great organization. Some of the members are just a little over zealous and tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to certain topics. I'd trust any of our ALPA reps at Pinnacle. In fact, I AM trusting them with pretty much my career at this point. Honestly, I'm okay with that b/c I've talked to the reps, they're good at telling you straight up what's going on, so I'm okay with trusting them to do the right thing.

 

[Velocipede]

Why would any person want to change to support, or otherwise, agree with someone who insults them relentlessly?

A. Who says I "fancy" myself a leader? I'm just a rank and file puke.

and,

2. Sometimes when a pilot or pilot group does something as aggregious as killing off my ALPA brothers, they're well deserving of the light shined under their rock. Tough nuts if they don't like it.

I'll admit personally that him and few other zealots around here have made me pretty much anti-ALPA. It kinda sucks, because I THOUGHT they were a great organization. But, if these are the leaders, I want no part of it.

Again, I'm just one of the rank and file. And you're "I'm anti-ALPA" sounds like and excuse you're using to "qualify" you for a job at AGT, B6 or VX.

P.S. My buddy whose job and Midwest was outsourced landed on his feet. He's an FAA ACI and will be taking EVERY opportunity to ride RAH jumpseats. Guess Karma is a biatch after all, eh boys?
:yup::yup::yup:

 

[jynxyjoe]

Brutal brutal thread.

Makes you wish ALPA could make everyone happy, but it can't. Just gotta keep plugging along and do our best to improve the industry. This Republic thing is a HUGE setback.

 

[Polar742]

A. Who says I "fancy" myself a leader? I'm just a rank and file puke.

Maybe you should reconsider all those posts in which you tell us all the leadership roles you've assumed over the years and how those make you eminently qualified to bash any opinion slightly contrary to yours.

and

2. Sometimes when a pilot or pilot group does something as aggregious as killing off my ALPA brothers, they're well deserving of the light shined under their rock. Tough nuts if they don't like it.

I think you do it because you don't have enough class or intelligence to be anything other than the bully you make yourself on the internet.

Personally, if you are even 10% of the jerk in real life you are on the internet, I'd be surprised 95% of the seniority list at Alaska hasn't marked you "No Fly".

If you are the guy you pretend to be on the internet, the CRM in your cockpit must be atrocious. There'd be no reason to speak up because you'd belittle the other pilot if they don't agree with your every decision.

Really, you are nothing but the bully. Just like that kid with the bad teeth and the foxhat on "A Christmas Story".

 

[granlistillo]

P.S. My buddy whose job and Midwest was outsourced landed on his feet. He's an FAA ACI and will be taking EVERY opportunity to ride RAH jumpseats. Guess Karma is a biatch after all, eh boys?
:yup::yup::yup:

If he is that low to have actually told you that, which I doubt, I wouldn't be spreading veiled threats on the internet. In fact I think you are making it up.

 

[Polar742]

P.S. My buddy whose job and Midwest was outsourced landed on his feet. He's an FAA ACI and will be taking EVERY opportunity to ride RAH jumpseats. Guess Karma is a biatch after all, eh boys?
:yup::yup::yup:

Do you want this forwarded to the FAA or the Republic site?

There are enough people that work at both on here....

 

[SpiceWeasel]

For some reason I recall that Velocipede didn't give two craps about regional guys prior to this 100 seat thing.....

 

[727to7400]

Doug, Kell and Polar are right on track. Velo seems to think that just because the world isn't fair, you can go call guys scabs. Airdale just figures it's OK to break the law or violate a contract. APA, DAL MEC and UAL MEC can give you a different perspective. APA has about 45 million examples of how expensive that can be.

Fact is, no rules have been broken. And even though he likes to throw around the "s" word, he has no clue what it means or he wouldn't use it. Go try that on a UAL 570'er or an EAL or NWA guy...you'll get what's left of your ass handed to you in a Dixie cup.

Management's doing this because they CAN. MDX is taking it in the shorts because ALPA hasn't shown any balls and supported them, and never will. They wrote these guys off long ago, but keep up with the ballsy statements. Ask yourself this. If ALPA REALLY gave a crap, then why isn't Prater keeping his promise to "change his zip code?" Where's ALPA Legal?

They've decided to walk away from guys who sent a LOT of dues money in. Done it before and will do it again. Problem is, the MDX guys didn't work for a legacy. So screw 'em as far as ALPA is concerned. More of this is coming, you can count on it.

Velo, if your intent is to flame and make statements you know nothing about, you are doing great. Keep trash talking others and making threats about their future employment and it will bite you. That stuff always shows up and you will end up being the one being marked as a trouble maker. Believe me, that's an impossible title to shake in this industry. I've seen it happen to a few guys who spouted off like you do. And that was before computers and blogs.

As to your "buddy" in the FAA...he'd better hope his bosses don't see your post. His career will end up being the guy who ramp checks Cessna 150's in Fairbanks for excessive bird droppings. I'm sure he'll appreciate you screwing his career.

 

[727to7400]

Hey.

Did the CEO call you and ask your opinion? NO.

Did the company catch you off guard? YES.

Forget about your union, but is the average line pilot pissed off enough to put people in control that can affect change?

Did you cross a picket line to fly struck work? NO.

You guys are NOT scabs. Screw anyone that says otherwise.

Time for a leadership coup. Get some union leaders that have YOUR long-term interests in mind. Tell them to get real or get out. If UAL, DAL, CAL, AA, SWA may or may not be around by the time you're 65, there's X-Y% of a chance that many of the regionals will either. If your leadership doesn't understand that the E-190 was your newhire position at a carrier higher on the food chain, tell them to kick rocks and go back to the line.

Time for a revolution in leadership at Republic? Perhaps.

Doug's right. The IBT started by putting a trustee in at IBT 747 and getting rid of Sowell. Last week at the hearing, Prager and others were there supporting Sowell. From what is told, 16+ hours later with a lot of testimony about financial hocus pocus and stuff that lined a few pockets, it looked pretty ugly. The same stuff that Prager tried to keep private a couple of weeks back.

Maybe like Doug said, it's time for the RAH guys to clean house. New leadership at the IBT, 747 and RAH may just be what the doctor ordered.

 

[mwflyer]

Velo's sole purpose here is to flame and incite people. Thats why he throws around terms like F.L.A.P.S. to get peolpe riled up. By responding, you give him what he wants, if everyone ignored him, he would eventually change.

 

[surreal1221]

FLAPS?

 

[falconvalley]

Just because 4 or 5 guys on the RAH boards want to decert the IBT tomorrow...

You think you might be exaggerating a little?

Do you honestly believe that will happen? APC already has RAH 190 pay rates and they are abysmal...

Not singling you out AGAIN, just taking an opportunity to make sure everyone reading this is clear- APC does not accurately report the payscale for RAH. At RAH it's based on seats. Of course, even if you show it in 5 seat clusters, it still sucks.

...I hate republic management. I hate midwest management. What a giant effing letdown

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Management's job is company profit, our job is our profit. Without either of those checks and balances you lose.

...I didnt see any SWA bids just yet. I think that's a new upcoming market for them, is it not?

This is the first time, as far as I know.

Oh, they've been looking to cash out for a while. I think it's Aeromexico that's already been striking deals for Midwest's 717s.

It could also just be them replacing a dying airplane in the cheapest fashion they can. It even comes with a cheaper pilot group!
A lot of people have been quick to say that TH is trying to shut the place down, but the airline is still going.

Hey.

Did the CEO call you and ask your opinion? NO.

Did the company catch you off guard? YES.

Forget about your union, but is the average line pilot pissed off enough to put people in control that can affect change?

Did you cross a picket line to fly struck work? NO.

You guys are NOT scabs. Screw anyone that says otherwise.

Time for a leadership coup. Get some union leaders that have YOUR long-term interests in mind. Tell them to get real or get out. If UAL, DAL, CAL, AA, SWA may or may not be around by the time you're 65, there's X-Y% of a chance that many of the regionals will either. If your leadership doesn't understand that the E-190 was your newhire position at a carrier higher on the food chain, tell them to kick rocks and go back to the line.

Time for a revolution in leadership at Republic? Perhaps.

YES

...I don't expect any RAH pilots to actually do this, though. Me thinks the lady doth protest TOO much.

That's your opinion. In my opinion, you should keep your opinion to yourself.

...P.S. My buddy whose job and Midwest was outsourced landed on his feet. He's an FAA ACI and will be taking EVERY opportunity to ride RAH jumpseats. Guess Karma is a biatch after all, eh boys?
:yup::yup::yup:

Is this how you handled disagreements in the Navy. I wouldn't ever alienate an entire squadron for a personal agenda. It's person to person. Do you think I should do the same thing to the entire Alaskan pilot group just because I disagree with you?

 

[SteveC]

FLAPS?

<edited> Little Airplane PilotS.

One of Mr. Velocipede's terms of endearment.

Just mention user fees and the FLAPs around here go crazy!

For all the FLAPs here who are convinced user fees will kill aviation, consider this:

Fatcats and bigwigs whining about user fees and the FLAPS falling right into line to protect their entitlement...

Its a question of allocating resources. If FLAPing around in your Cessna is that important, give up something else...

Sure it will help. Get the FLAPS out of the NAS.

These are the people that user fees are targeted at. They're also the people that have sucked all the FLAPS into their "righteous indignation" over user fees....

There's a good idea. Let's get rid of some professional pilot jobs so GA boys can FLAP around for fun....

Its the FLAPS operating along the beach with their heads up and locked.

 

[Velocipede]

Maybe you should reconsider all those posts in which you tell us all the leadership roles you've assumed over the years and how those make you eminently qualified to bash any opinion slightly contrary to yours.

There's a difference between WAS and IS. I guess that difference doesn't fit YOUR agenda, though.

Really, you are nothing but the bully. Just like that kid with the bad teeth and the foxhat on "A Christmas Story".

My, my. Aren't we judgmental tonight? Who made you "High Inquisitor"?

Velo seems to think that just because the world isn't fair, you can go call guys scabs. Fact is, no rules have been broken. And even though he likes to throw around the "s" word, he has no clue what it means or he wouldn't use it.

I suppose you need a little remedial reading class. I NEVER used that term with regard to RAH pilots. Others have, not me. So, lighten up, Francis.

Ask yourself this. If ALPA REALLY gave a crap, then why isn't Prater keeping his promise to "change his zip code?" Where's ALPA Legal?

They've decided to walk away from guys who sent a LOT of dues money in. Done it before and will do it again. Problem is, the MDX guys didn't work for a legacy. So screw 'em as far as ALPA is concerned. More of this is coming, you can count on it.

As usual, the ALPA haters conveniently "forget" that National can't and won't make decisions for local MECs. Perhaps the Midwest guys screwed the pooch by not having stronger scope language. Or perhaps they should have rolled over and given Hoeksma his 50% pay cut.

They didn't. And their flying got outsourced to the lowest bidder. Of course the $25M bribe RAH paid to Hoeksma to get the contract probably helped.

Keep trash talking others and making threats about their future employment and it will bite you. That stuff always shows up and you will end up being the one being marked as a trouble maker. Believe me, that's an impossible title to shake in this industry.

Hey, all I did was make the observation that Karma is a biatch. The guys YOU hose on the way up often get the opportunity to return the favor.

<edited> Little Airplane PilotS.

One of Mr. Velocipede's terms of endearment.

Wrong, O great Moderator. That was Hacker's take. When I use the term FLAP it refers to:

Funny
Little
Airplane
Pilots

I guess you could have asked ME first, but I guess a PM from Olympus is considered a long distance call.

 

[derg]

So if you fly for Republic, do you find this acceptable and if not, what do you plan on doing about it? (steering the thread back to the magenta line).

 

[granlistillo]

It could also just be them replacing a dying airplane in the cheapest fashion they can. It even comes with a cheaper pilot group!
A lot of people have been quick to say that TH is trying to shut the place down, but the airline is still going.

This is the biggest question I have on the matter. I haven't ventured much of an opinion, if at all. But really, is pilot labor rates the key factor in this deal? With the mergers deals that fell through, and returning 2/3 of their planes, it seems to be a real convoluted problem, not just management saying "hey, lets pay pilots less and outsource it to RAH". Maybe if they couldn't get the right biz model option B was just shut the doors and liquidate?? Sometimes I think pilots subscribe to a pilot centric universe cosmology that just isn't so.

Hey, all I did was make the observation that Karma is a biatch. The guys YOU hose on the way up often get the opportunity to return the favor.

Backpedal all you want to, but fact remains you were making pathetic, nay down right pitiful threats and the foolishness was exposed. What a joke.