Question emailed from Army 1SG

Ian_J

Hubschrauber Flieger
Got this in my inbox after this 1SG read my military to civilian conversion article - I posted my response to him below as well. Just wanted to make sure I'm more or less accurate considering I'm not in the civilian business. I've also encouraged him to join the forums here.

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Sir,

I read your post on Jet Careers concerning Military pilots converting to fixed wing pilots, and had a few questions. I am a H-60 Crew chief, turned 1SG, and currently hold a PPL. Retirement is fast approaching and I would like to fly as a professional pilot. (Enough time in the back) When I retire I will have completed my BS, should have CFI, CFII, MEI ratings, and have held my A&P for 13 years. I will be 42ish when I leave the Army. I guess what my question would be is, how would a potiential employer look at my past employment record, 24 years, as well as my ratings and limited time (roughly 250+)? Do you think I would be "too old" to get hired at a part 135 cargo/air taxi, or regionals?
I know they will not count, even if I were a front seater in the H-60, but my TT CE/FI/SI time is 3400.
Thanks in advance for your time.

Response:

Ian J said:
Overall, no, I don't think you would be considered too old for employment in civil aviation. I've met people on Jetcareers.com who were hired at part 91,121, and 135 operators when they were in their 40s. At 42 you will still have over 20 employable years left in aviation.

Employers will look favorably at your military experience, but you're right, your back seat time doesn't count for flight time, which will be one of your biggest hurdles in gaining employment. Most employers can't even consider your overall experience as a "whole person concept" until you've met the minimum flight time for the position. For an IFR part 135 position you'll need a minimum of 1200 hours per FAA regulations plus a few other specifics for cross country time, IFR time, etc. And while part 121 regionals don't have mandated flight times for FOs (yet - this is coming soon), the hiring situation is very competitive these days and candidates probably need at leat 1200-1500 hours to get an interview. Also keep in mind most employers require a minimum of multi-engine time, usually 100-200 hours. I can tell you anecdotally though that many part 135 operators will see your A&P as a huge plus.

As you can see, you'll most likely have to build your hours in order to be competitive for a job. There are a few ways to do this - from flying jumpers, banner towing, to flying pipeline patrol, but what I'd really recommend is flight instructing - especially as a former Army NCO who is used to being in charge and instructing others as an SI/FI.

I'd also recommend starting to network now if you haven't already. Aviation can be very much a "who you know" type industry and there are a lot of jobs out there that aren't advertised heavily and are filled by word of mouth. A good start would be registering on the forum section of jetcareers.com. It's a great way to learn about the industry and to chat with people who have done exactly what you want to do. In fact, I've met former Army crew chiefs who currently fly for the regionals there - and there's a fair number of other ex-military who are active on the boards.

Regardless, I'll go ahead and throw your question out there to the community to make sure I'm on target - I've actually made my way back into the Army so my information could be dated.

Hope that helps, and best of luck with your up-coming retirement.
 
Top's time as a crew chief won't count for hours, but his experience can count. I've seen a few who have found really nice jobs because they can fly AND turn wrenches. This is not 121, of course, but in 135 and 91 this is a huge benefit for employers.

In fact, with an A&P, Dynamic Aviation has dropped their min time to 500 hrs. His security clearance will help, too.

Minimum requirements include a current and qualified FAA Commercial Pilot license, minimum 500 hours total flight time, personal situation allowing for extended periods away from home station, US citizen or non-US citizen with appropriate work authorization, and strong customer focus. High school diploma is required, with college completion in a related field of study preferred. A&P Mechanic Certificate required.
 
I know of an ex-army helo pilot (seperated, not retired) who got a job flying right seat in a PC-12 fresh out of ATP with 250 hours FW time. This job is for a private owner and he happened to meet one of the pilots. Yes he had helo stick time but they liked his military experience more than anything. I would say it is very possible to snag a job being retired military but networking is key. As you said, Ian, 121 and 135 are going to have hard set minimums whereas part 91 wouldn't.
 
As a former crew dog myself, I can say that your take on the situation was pretty much spot-on.

His mechanical know-how will help him as he progresses as a pilot. (Once mine even got me a part time job- on the spot.) Beyond that, backseat time doesn't count for jack.

His skill set as part of a multi-place crew will show when he gets into the crew environment. I know for a fact that my emulation of a lot of the crusty old PICs I flew with in the Army came in damned handy in simulator evals during interviews.

His 'crew' experience will make a great bullet point on a resume.

Refer him to me, if you want. Be more than happy to answer any questions a fellow 'Hawk crew dog might have.
 
Thanks guys.

Refer him to me, if you want. Be more than happy to answer any questions a fellow 'Hawk crew dog might have.

Will do - if he writes me back. I get 4-5 emails a month from people who read my article asking questions. I always take my time to give them a response to the best of my ability and it's surprising how many don't offer a simple thanks. (Not saying this is going to be the case with this 1SG... just a general rant).
 
Thanks guys.



Will do - if he writes me back. I get 4-5 emails a month from people who read my article asking questions. I always take my time to give them a response to the best of my ability and it's surprising how many don't offer a simple thanks. (Not saying this is going to be the case with this 1SG... just a general rant).

Aight. Lemme know if he does. Fun fact: my primary instructor was a retired AVN 1SG. Fun experience. The man had a way with words. :D
 
He should use his GI Bill to help him build time. May as well use the benefits!
 
First I would like to start off by saying this is my first post here. And thanks goes out to Ian J for pointing me in the direction of this website. I am, as the post says, a Crew Chief turned First Sergeant in the US Army. I am currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, soon to be deemed, Operation New Dawn. I have served in the Army for 22 years now and I am 40 years old and will be retiring in the next couple of years. By the time I finish this career at the ripe old age of 42. I will be looking to start my next career as a professional pilot.
Thanks also in order for everyone else who has chimed in here. (Deadstick, who is responsible for my screen name BTW, guywhoflies, Firebird2xc, and dustoff17) All points that I have taken in and will continue “bug” you guys for information. I am excited about the chance at a new career and the challenges it will bring.
Firebird2xc, Ian J, and Dustoff17, I would like to pick your brains one day to see where you went and how you got there, since our paths are quite similar. I have seen the pics of the DAPS (Firebird2xc) and I have been assigned to the Dustoff mission for five years once before.
As for the VA benies, The Post 9/11 GI Bill allows for transfer for your spouse and/or your children. It also has been briefed that the Post 9/11 GI Bill will not pay for flight training, even after PPL. With that being said, I will transfer my GI Bill to my son for a 4 year degree and foot the bill on my aviation education.
I know regional and or 135 cargo pay isn’t the best in the world. But a small retirement check helps, and I get to live the dream, for the second time in my life… :rawk:
Thanks again Guys and I will be lurking when the Big Brother, (Computer Nazis) isn't watching…
 
First I would like to start off by saying this is my first post here. And thanks goes out to Ian J for pointing me in the direction of this website. I am, as the post says, a Crew Chief turned First Sergeant in the US Army. I am currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, soon to be deemed, Operation New Dawn. I have served in the Army for 22 years now and I am 40 years old and will be retiring in the next couple of years. By the time I finish this career at the ripe old age of 42. I will be looking to start my next career as a professional pilot.
Thanks also in order for everyone else who has chimed in here. (Deadstick, who is responsible for my screen name BTW, guywhoflies, Firebird2xc, and dustoff17) All points that I have taken in and will continue “bug” you guys for information. I am excited about the chance at a new career and the challenges it will bring.
Firebird2xc, Ian J, and Dustoff17, I would like to pick your brains one day to see where you went and how you got there, since our paths are quite similar. I have seen the pics of the DAPS (Firebird2xc) and I have been assigned to the Dustoff mission for five years once before.
As for the VA benies, The Post 9/11 GI Bill allows for transfer for your spouse and/or your children. It also has been briefed that the Post 9/11 GI Bill will not pay for flight training, even after PPL. With that being said, I will transfer my GI Bill to my son for a 4 year degree and foot the bill on my aviation education.
I know regional and or 135 cargo pay isn’t the best in the world. But a small retirement check helps, and I get to live the dream, for the second time in my life… :rawk:
Thanks again Guys and I will be lurking when the Big Brother, (Computer Nazis) isn't watching…
Welcome to JC, 1SG! Glad to see you made it here.
 
First I would like to start off by saying this is my first post here. And thanks goes out to Ian J for pointing me in the direction of this website. I am, as the post says, a Crew Chief turned First Sergeant in the US Army. I am currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, soon to be deemed, Operation New Dawn. I have served in the Army for 22 years now and I am 40 years old and will be retiring in the next couple of years. By the time I finish this career at the ripe old age of 42. I will be looking to start my next career as a professional pilot.
Thanks also in order for everyone else who has chimed in here. (Deadstick, who is responsible for my screen name BTW, guywhoflies, Firebird2xc, and dustoff17) All points that I have taken in and will continue “bug” you guys for information. I am excited about the chance at a new career and the challenges it will bring.
Firebird2xc, Ian J, and Dustoff17, I would like to pick your brains one day to see where you went and how you got there, since our paths are quite similar. I have seen the pics of the DAPS (Firebird2xc) and I have been assigned to the Dustoff mission for five years once before.
As for the VA benies, The Post 9/11 GI Bill allows for transfer for your spouse and/or your children. It also has been briefed that the Post 9/11 GI Bill will not pay for flight training, even after PPL. With that being said, I will transfer my GI Bill to my son for a 4 year degree and foot the bill on my aviation education.
I know regional and or 135 cargo pay isn’t the best in the world. But a small retirement check helps, and I get to live the dream, for the second time in my life… :rawk:
Thanks again Guys and I will be lurking when the Big Brother, (Computer Nazis) isn't watching…


Welcome, Top. Glad to have ya! Keep your head on a swivel over there and come back safe- and soon.

I never did any DAP action- I was in a maint. platoon in Korea (2/2 AVN in 98-99) and in the 54th Med (AA) 'Dustoff' from 99-2006 when I separated and the unit was disbanded with the reorganization.

Got my initial PPL rating with the Ft. Lewis Flying Club and then my IFR with Double Eagle Aviation in Tucson, Az. Did my high performance and mountain checkouts at Fort Lewis then off I went. After I separated in 06 I went to Florida for my Multiengine work and then off to stump for jobs.
Since, I've flown for two regional airlines, one in a turboprop and another in a jet.

The pay sucks, the hours are long, but at least in this line of work nobody gets blood on my uniform. That's a perk. :D
Feel free to post questions here or to send Private Messages (PM's, in local parlance) and ask as many questions as you come up with.

Cheers, Top! :beer:
 
Hey Top,

It appears we are vacationing in the same spot...as another source of info, I'd be happy to chat with you as well as a few of us civilian aviation turned green suiters, that is if you can be seen talking to 47 guys :insane: . Send me PM if your interested.


Good writeup Ian...and when did you join back up and what are you doing these days?
 
Welcome, Top...

Just a thought. One one of the ways to build time is to instruct, of course. Another is to get your own airplane and do some heavy cross-country flying. If you can swing the cost of the airplane (and an IFR certified 150 or 152 can be had for under 30K in good condition) you can build a lot of time with that airplane for a couple hundred hours, sell it, and recover a lot of your costs.

Thanks for your service, Top. And welcome aboard.
 
TOP,

Welcome to the board. Thank you for your service to our great country. Former 91B (now 68W) myself. 98-2004. I started flying in 2004 when I got back of OIF. Needed something to take my mind of things and bring some focus back. I fly for fun and have no intention of becoming a professional pilot but the people on this board are so helpful regardless of your experience or goals.

Good luck in getting your ratings and congrats on your upcoming retirement.

CB
 
Just to throw my 2 cents in, I believe ch 33 is available now for flight costs though it may only be for erau type places. I know erau is able to do so. Either way probably better to get ratings on the cheap and save the gi bill for your family.
Thanks for your service and good luck with your upcoming retirement.
 
Welcome.
Your age should not be an issue with regional airlines and, as long as you have the flight time requirements and a clean record may actually help you out. You will bring a level of maturity they often don't get in younger FOs and there is a good chance that you will stay with the regional for your career if it is one of the better ones.
Starting pay is not great at any regional, but some of the better ones are not bad. If you can get hired by 45 as an FO you are looking at 20 years of earnings. At my old airline a 20 year CRJ captain would take in a little over $100K, maybe more if you want to work hard. Not great compared to majors, but not poverty level. Max out your 401(k) and you will be okay when you retire.
Your A&P may also open other avenues- as already pointed out there are some outfits that look for pilots with A&Ps. Also know that you may spend more time away from home with these outfits. But that's the beauty of civilian flying- you have choices other than the type of MRE you'll have for dinner.
 
First I would like to start off by saying this is my first post here. And thanks goes out to Ian J for pointing me in the direction of this website. I am, as the post says, a Crew Chief turned First Sergeant in the US Army. I am currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, soon to be deemed, Operation New Dawn. I have served in the Army for 22 years now and I am 40 years old and will be retiring in the next couple of years. By the time I finish this career at the ripe old age of 42. I will be looking to start my next career as a professional pilot.
Thanks also in order for everyone else who has chimed in here. (Deadstick, who is responsible for my screen name BTW, guywhoflies, Firebird2xc, and dustoff17) All points that I have taken in and will continue “bug” you guys for information. I am excited about the chance at a new career and the challenges it will bring.
Firebird2xc, Ian J, and Dustoff17, I would like to pick your brains one day to see where you went and how you got there, since our paths are quite similar. I have seen the pics of the DAPS (Firebird2xc) and I have been assigned to the Dustoff mission for five years once before.
As for the VA benies, The Post 9/11 GI Bill allows for transfer for your spouse and/or your children. It also has been briefed that the Post 9/11 GI Bill will not pay for flight training, even after PPL. With that being said, I will transfer my GI Bill to my son for a 4 year degree and foot the bill on my aviation education.
I know regional and or 135 cargo pay isn’t the best in the world. But a small retirement check helps, and I get to live the dream, for the second time in my life… :rawk:
Thanks again Guys and I will be lurking when the Big Brother, (Computer Nazis) isn't watching…
Just to let you know the post/911 gi bill will pay for flight training from private and up if it is a requirement to receive a certain degree from an institute of higher learning. I'm starting helicopter training this June in Bend Oregon through CoCC for the Helicopter Associate of Applied Science degree and the gibill will cover all of the costs. Also if I remember correctly if you are active duty the government will pay 100% of your classes through tuition assistance. You might be able to get the government to pay for all of your ratings if you can find the time and a college near where you are stationed that has a degree where it is a requirement to complete flight training to receive a aviation degree. I'm not so sure about this since I'm no longer active duty I didn't really look into tuition assistance, but ask around and look into your base's education office for more info. stay safe.
 
Just to let you know the post/911 gi bill will pay for flight training from private and up if it is a requirement to receive a certain degree from an institute of higher learning. I'm starting helicopter training this June in Bend Oregon through CoCC for the Helicopter Associate of Applied Science degree and the gibill will cover all of the costs. Also if I remember correctly if you are active duty the government will pay 100% of your classes through tuition assistance. You might be able to get the government to pay for all of your ratings if you can find the time and a college near where you are stationed that has a degree where it is a requirement to complete flight training to receive a aviation degree. I'm not so sure about this since I'm no longer active duty I didn't really look into tuition assistance, but ask around and look into your base's education office for more info. stay safe.

I was going to say the same thing; good call "b3181981"

"DITTO" from me - Thank you for your service.
 
Thanks to all who have responded. It’s good to be in great company.
My intent is to instruct once I complete my ratings. With my A&P, the ownership option sounds feasible. I would also be willing to tow banners, work away from home (for reasonable amounts of time), etc.
I used to say as a young Specialist, “can you believe they pay us to do this?” (Flying around SoCal in a H-60)
As for the GI Bill issues, thanks for the insight. I am looking into it more in depth. You would be amazed at how confusing and confused the experts are.
Blackhawk, that’s great news. I won’t work for free, but I believe in staying in one place as long as you are being treated fairly.
Thanks again for the info.
To all those who have served and are currently serving, Thank you, for your service.
 
Back
Top