PSA New Hire Questions

[Maurus]

So will going to PSA now have any lasting career implications? Some people think yes, but arent all those GoJet guys getting out without a problem?

I'm not a fan of what happened but I don't expect any implications and have 0 intentions to make sure there are.

It is possible pissed off people will be at the majors first but they won't be on hiring committees for years.c

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I know not of which you speak.

The future, of course.

 

[etflies]

Training was easy, and that is coming from a guy with 5000 hrs and over 7 years on the ERJ. You won't have an issues, just have to get used to flying it a different way. Just cooperate to graduate even if it does not make sense.

Pay was 75 hrs a month during training plus per-diem 24/7 which actually added up to a nice little bit. You get a single occupancy room in DAY for all 6 weeks. I was in DAY Mon-Fri for about 6 weeks and then 1 week off before the oral in CLT and then 3 weeks off before sims in CVG. I drove home (CHA) on Friday night and back up Sunday evening so training was not that bad for me and it was worth it to see my wife and son and get away. Once you do your checkride and loft you go back to CLT for 700/900 differences training before IOE. Overall not bad all, the hardest part is the mental hurdle that you have to get over being junior once again after X amount of years at XJT but I felt it was the best decision for my career. I bet my career on PSA over XJT and so far it looks like I made the right decision. Do you live in ATL?

@bike21, @etflies, @GypsyPilot, @Autothrust Blue, @Lee D and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, can see me on their seniority list. If that helps at all

Interestingly enough, Mrs. etflies is likely going to be offered a phenomenal opportunity in one of PSA's bases. We've been talking about moving and me commuting at my current gig or switching teams to live in base for a few weeks now. Although I'm not a fan of how the airplanes will be acquired, the implications of PSA's growth have added another factor. I'm happy where I am, but it isn't the end goal. The current place seems to be as big as it'll ever reasonably be, and it is a pretty senior airline (i.e. expensive) so the likelihood of new flying is slim. Should I pass an interview and come away with a job offer, the new place would have a ton of growth coming, and offer the potential to upgrade sooner than I would at the current job. Couple that with probably being able to live in base and it is tempting to leave.

Would any JCer's mind proffering some thoughts or wisdom? I've been over it again and again with myself, and the Mrs but it's a big decision and I want to make sure I'm not missing anything or chasing a carrot attached to my own head.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm not a fan of what happened but I don't expect any implications and have 0 intentions to make sure there are.

It is possible pissed off people will be at the majors first but they won't be on hiring committees for years.c

That's the only real problem, is the stepping on toes. I knew some TSA guys that got honked by the GoJet's thing and they still bear a resentment. I don't keep up with all of them but I know they were completely screwed into restarting at another regional.

 

[Maurus]

That's the only real problem, is the stepping on toes. I knew some TSA guys that got honked by the GoJet's thing and they still bear a resentment. I don't keep up with all of them but I know they were completely screwed into restarting at another regional.

That is the biggest reason why I don't like the PSA stuff. Other people now need to start over or ride the ship down.

The Envoy guys could still be in the same position but PSA sure didn't help the situation. Helping management whipsaw pilot groups is not ALPA's job.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The Envoy guys could still be in the same position but PSA sure didn't help the situation. Helping management whipsaw pilot groups is not ALPAs job.

That said, an...admirable job is being done of that, regardless of whether or not it was the original purpose.

 

[jynxyjoe]

That is the biggest reason why I don't like the PSA stuff. Other people now need to start over or ride the ship down.

The Envoy guys could still be in the same position but PSA sure didn't help the situation. Helping management whipsaw pilot groups is not ALPA's job.

That said, an...admirable job is being done of that, regardless of whether or not it was the original purpose.

This is what the pilots wanted, ALPA reflects the pilots. Maybe ALPA national should step in and veto contracts but pilots don't ever seem to want that except online. Renationalize airlines as far as I care, one national seniority list, and give me a government pension and thrift savings account.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

This is what the pilots wanted, ALPA reflects the pilots. Maybe ALPA national should step in and veto contracts but pilots don't ever seem to want that except online. Renationalize airlines as far as I care, one national seniority list, and give me a government pension and thrift savings account.

Yes, maybe they should - but it seems to me that there's some sort of unfair competition law against that.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Yes, maybe they should - but it seems to me that there's some sort of unfair competition law against that.

I'm not sure what's to do when a pilot group says, "we'll do it cheaper" unless pilots smarten up and take lessons from plumbers and steel workers. We won't though... we're far too good and too smart to aspire to the likes blue collar workers. It's much better that we make nothing, bitch about it, and point fingers at each other.

Unity is for management types. We're all special snow flakes.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'm not sure what's to do when a pilot group says, "we'll do it cheaper" unless pilots smarten up and take lessons from plumbers and steel workers. We won't though... we're far too good and too smart to aspire to the likes blue collar workers. It's much better that we make nothing, bitch about it, and point fingers at each other.

Unity is for management types. We're all special snow flakes.

Well, I am. I don't know what's wrong with y'all.

Also known as, "Ah got mine!"

 

[SpiceWeasel]

It's Capitalism boys. Who can do the job cheapest makes the most dollars because they can do it longest.

 

[jynxyjoe]

It's Capitalism boys. Who can do the job cheapest makes the most dollars because they can do it longest.

When the example given is an existing and fully developed product or service. We're doing dinosaur work, and without unity we will circle the toilet unless the supply of pilots goes away or the job stops being fun.

So don't get into much debt and take night classes for petrochemical engineering.

 

[Carbon]

So will going to PSA now have any lasting career implications? Some people think yes, but arent all those GoJet guys getting out without a problem?

Personally I'd say yes...while it certainly wont get everybody at PSA/GoJet/Mesa etc there are a lot of people in the regionals now who are not happy about the guys that undercut everybody else and keep this industry in the crappy position it is in. Sure it might take a few years, and maybe you'll get picked up by a major before somebody who cares gets in the position where it would matter. But yes, the late lateral movers and people who support the whipsawing might have a harder time later on down the road. If it were me on the hiring board and I had a choice between a Skywest/XJT/ASA/Horizon/Envoy etc guy vs a PSA/GoJet/Mesa...I'd probably pick the former. Though with the coming "shortage" that may not matter.

 

[DragonStar45]

Personally I'd say yes...while it certainly wont get everybody at PSA/GoJet/Mesa etc there are a lot of people in the regionals now who are not happy about the guys that undercut everybody else and keep this industry in the crappy position it is in. Sure it might take a few years, and maybe you'll get picked up by a major before somebody who cares gets in the position where it would matter. But yes, the late lateral movers and people who support the whipsawing might have a harder time later on down the road. If it were me on the hiring board and I had a choice between a Skywest/XJT/ASA/Horizon/Envoy etc guy vs a PSA/GoJet/Mesa...I'd probably pick the former. Though with the coming "shortage" that may not matter.

How about you pick the most qualified pilot?

 

[ian]

Personally I'd say yes...while it certainly wont get everybody at PSA/GoJet/Mesa etc there are a lot of people in the regionals now who are not happy about the guys that undercut everybody else and keep this industry in the crappy position it is in. Sure it might take a few years, and maybe you'll get picked up by a major before somebody who cares gets in the position where it would matter. But yes, the late lateral movers and people who support the whipsawing might have a harder time later on down the road. If it were me on the hiring board and I had a choice between a Skywest/XJT/ASA/Horizon/Envoy etc guy vs a PSA/GoJet/Mesa...I'd probably pick the former. Though with the coming "shortage" that may not matter.

and that's why you won't be on a hiring board

 

[Carbon]

So will going to PSA now have any lasting career implications? Some people think yes, but arent all those GoJet guys getting out without a problem?

How about you pick the most qualified pilot?

If they are both equal, I'd pick the guy that wasn't just looking out for himself and his upgrade and instead was thinking about how his decisions effected the industry and his fellow pilots.

and that's why you won't be on a hiring board

You're right I probably wont, I'm opinionated and more importantly care too much about my time at home.

I like how the two comments above were very quick to attack when all I'm really doing is telling you a truth that is shared by MANY of the pilots I fly with...I'm sorry that is the case but obviously the person with the original question was questioning the morality of this decision and I felt it best to let him know that, yes...it COULD be a factor.

 

[BobDDuck]

I like how the two comments above were very quick to attack when all I'm really doing is telling you a truth that is shared by MANY of the pilots I fly with...I'm sorry that is the case but obviously the person with the original question was questioning the morality of this decision and I felt it best to let him know that, yes...it COULD be a factor.​

The problems is that "many" of those pilots you fly with don't have a clue as to what is actually going on and just jump on the easiest, most promising looking band wagon and ride it to town. The fact that you include Mesa on the list (as well as PSA, but seeing as that's the point of discussion right now I'll skip that) tells me that you a) don't know your history b) have made no effort to learn your history and c) are simply parroting what ever the latest "angry regional pilots who feel they (or their buddies at BrandX) got screwed" party line.

Eagle (sorry, Envoy) was going to lose those airplanes no matter what LOAs were signed at other carriers.. It's about longevity and the costs associated with it. That's all it's about.

Eagle's longevity sucks. That's strike one.

Eagle is a wholly owned carrier which means they have no contract for lift and own none of their own airframes. Strike two.

Eagle told AAG to pound sand 3 times. Probably justified, but you don't tell your parent company to eff off 3 times in a row, especially when you have no guarantees or rights to any of the flying you currently do. Strike three.

Guys call bellyache and talk about career blackmarks all they want, but the fact of the matter is that it's just hot air. Sure, a bunch of GoJet guys got booted from jumpseats for a while and yes, way back in the day Freedom A listers couldn't put their flight cases down in the crewroom without fear of never seeing them again but it didn't stop any of them from moving forward with their careers. And those were for (what most rational people would say were) egregious sins that potentially did serious damage to the industry and major harm to specific pilots (TSA and Mesa respectively). What PSA did? Not even close.


​

 

[jtrain609]

That's the only real problem, is the stepping on toes. I knew some TSA guys that got honked by the GoJet's thing and they still bear a resentment. I don't keep up with all of them but I know they were completely screwed into restarting at another regional.

That is the biggest reason why I don't like the PSA stuff. Other people now need to start over or ride the ship down.

The Envoy guys could still be in the same position but PSA sure didn't help the situation. Helping management whipsaw pilot groups is not ALPA's job.

Guys call bellyache and talk about career blackmarks all they want, but the fact of the matter is that it's just hot air. Sure, a bunch of GoJet guys got booted from jumpseats for a while and yes, way back in the day Freedom A listers couldn't put their flight cases down in the crewroom without fear of never seeing them again but it didn't stop any of them from moving forward with their careers. And those were for (what most rational people would say were) egregious sins that potentially did serious damage to the industry and major harm to specific pilots (TSA and Mesa respectively). What PSA did? Not even close.​

You guys gotta listen to Jimmy here.

What happened at PSA IS NOT what happened at GoJets or with the Freedom A-Listers. Too many kids these days weren't around to watch what happened with GoJets and Freedom to realize what actually happened there.

GoJets and Freedom were created out of whole cloth in order to circumvent the union agreements at Trans States and Mesa, respectively. This would be like if AMR Corp said, "So, PSA, PDT and EGL don't want to fly these planes for nothing? That's fine, we'll are our own airline, with blackjack and hookers," and then went out and created A BRAND NEW AIRLINE with new pilots and airplanes, and gave the flying to that carrier, thus resetting the costs completely. Then in the case of GoJets, they'd put in a sham union and pass a "contract" so that it had the look of respectability.

PSA and PDT have been around for DECADES, not minutes. To compare GoJets/Freedom to PSA/PDT stinks of willful ignorance.

 

[jynxyjoe]

You guys gotta listen to Jimmy here.

What happened at PSA IS NOT what happened at GoJets or with the Freedom A-Listers. Too many kids these days weren't around to watch what happened with GoJets and Freedom to realize what actually happened there.

GoJets and Freedom were created out of whole cloth in order to circumvent the union agreements at Trans States and Mesa, respectively. This would be like if AMR Corp said, "So, PSA, PDT and EGL don't want to fly these planes for nothing? That's fine, we'll are our own airline, with blackjack and hookers," and then went out and created A BRAND NEW AIRLINE with new pilots and airplanes, and gave the flying to that carrier, thus resetting the costs completely. Then in the case of GoJets, they'd put in a sham union and pass a "contract" so that it had the look of respectability.

PSA and PDT have been around for DECADES, not minutes. To compare GoJets/Freedom to PSA/PDT stinks of willful ignorance.

Eh Jimmy, I was talking about GoJets as a separate issue, I understand PSA wasn't started to circumvent anything.

 

[jtrain609]

Eh Jimmy, I was talking about GoJets as a separate issue, I understand PSA wasn't started to circumvent anything.

I know you know that, but we both know that lots of kids these days don't know that, ya know?