Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Status
Not open for further replies.
Glad to see all the JC folks are accounted for and in good shape... Sad times for sure but hopefully something can be learned from this...

Take care out there folks!
 
LatitudeDancer said:
NTSB: Plane didn't dive, but landed flat on house...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090214/ap_on_re_us/plane_into_home
Click to expand...

Investigators did not offer an explanation as to why the plane ended up pointed away from the Buffalo airport, but it does raise the possibility the pilots were fighting an icy airplane: Air safety guidelines say pilots can try a 180-degree turn to rid a plane of ice.
Click to expand...

What the writer did not understand was the 180 turn was to exit the icing conditions, not shake it off with a violent turn.

But the briefing does raise questions. At some point the nose had to be quite low to descend so rapidly or the earlier briefing about 'severe pitch and roll' changes makes no sense.
 
Orange Anchor said:
What the writer did not understand was the 180 turn was to exit the icing conditions, not shake it off with a violent turn.

But the briefing does raise questions. At some point the nose had to be quite low to descend so rapidly or the earlier briefing about 'severe pitch and roll' changes makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Can still remember in my freight dog days long ago....the PA-31 had ice shields on the left and right side of the fuselage along the prop arc. Props would pick up ice and sling it into the shields with a loud "bam" in moderate-plus icing conditions. Was somewhat disconcerting.
 
Does the Q400 have boots or heated leading edges? Is it possible in this situation that if the icing was bad enough it could have built up behind the leading edges? Though rare it does happen sometimes....
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Does the Q400 have boots or heated leading edges? Is it possible in this situation that if the icing was bad enough it could have built up behind the leading edges? Though rare it does happen sometimes....
Click to expand...

Not that rare in clear ice type conditions. I've had it more than once and it's not fun at all. Though the Saab flew fine even with all the ice I was carrying. I think it took about an extra 5-10% of Torque on landing.
 
Codyjp said:
Looks like they about covered it there. What is so upsetting to you?
Click to expand...

Capt. Caucasian said:
Remarkably, I didn't find it that bad. There are some good quotes in it.
Click to expand...

VATechPilot said:
Yeah I'm not sure what do think about this article. It seems to suggest that your life is in danger with young regional pilots but then retracts. Regardless, everything seems quite true other than a few misinterpretations. I think my biggest problem that I have with this article is that it seems quite pointless. But I do like how it shines the light on the misconceptions people have on pilots now a-days, such as the QOL and pay for regional pilots. I loved this quote, ""You won't make a livable income until you get in the left (captain's) seat," Smith said. "Pilots accept this as part of the game, and the companies do it because they can.""
Click to expand...
The whole wage part was fine. It points out to the public a sad truth.

It was mainly the partial assertion that regional pilots are inexperienced and the implication (despite the disclaimer) that inexperience might be the cause of the accident that got me.

I was also reacting to the rest of the crap I've seen and heard about all day working at an FBO. Lots of the people going through here have heard different things or come with different stories of what they think happen.

I really just wish the news media would actually report more accurately on aviation. Maybe they should at least learn that just any licensed pilot isn't going to cut it as an "aviation expert." It's been said before in this thread, so I'll refrain from typing the rest of the rant.
 
I like how everyone in the media becomes an expert or an NTSB investigator. Last night here in the SOCC we watched two meterologists on the Weather Channel teach aerodynamics and icing with some cheasy animations, a blow dryer and a piece of paper. The whole time they're laughing and having a good ol time.
 
If these 4.2 hour student pilots are expert enough to know the fundamental aerodynamics of airplanes and icing then how can 2000+ hour commercial pilots not be expert enough to fly them?
 
Orange Anchor said:
What the writer did not understand was the 180 turn was to exit the icing conditions, not shake it off with a violent turn.

But the briefing does raise questions. At some point the nose had to be quite low to descend so rapidly or the earlier briefing about 'severe pitch and roll' changes makes no sense.
Click to expand...


I think you're BOTH speculating. And, quite possibly both WRONG.

Not trying to break your balls, but........let's leave the guessing out of it. ;)



Edit: My apologies if this came out harsh.....been a long couple of days w/ many more to come.
 
Cruise said:
I think you're BOTH speculating. And, quite possibly both WRONG.

Not trying to break your balls, but........let's leave the guessing out of it. ;)



Edit: My apologies if this came out harsh.....been a long couple of days w/ many more to come.
Click to expand...
Matt, How you guys hanging in up there? I paticipated on two mishap investigation boards when I was in the Navy. It's tiring and mind numbing. You guys need anything let me know.;)
 
I just have an absolute sick feeling about all of this and have been in a sort of depression since this happened. To all you Colgan guys & gals, hang in there and we've been praying for everyone involved.
 
One aspect of the investigation will focus on the crew, how they were trained and whether they had enough time to rest between flights. Other investigators focused on the weather, the mechanics of the plane and whether the engine, wings and various mechanics of the plane operated as they were designed to.
Click to expand...

Very Interesting
 
H46Bubba said:
Matt, How you guys hanging in up there? I paticipated on two mishap investigation boards when I was in the Navy. It's tiring and mind numbing. You guys need anything let me know.;)
Click to expand...

Hey H....it's going well, but slowly. Thanks for the offer on the help. Once this is over, Mark and I will probably share our experiences. But for now, just not much we can say.

One thing I can say is THANK YOU to all my fellow JC'ers who've expressed their thoughts/ offers of assistance, etc.... We appreciate it a great deal. Although we may not always agree or get along here on the interwebs, it's nice to see we can come together.

Off to bed......early to rise, lot's to do. :(
 
Orange Anchor said:
What the writer did not understand was the 180 turn was to exit the icing conditions, not shake it off with a violent turn.

But the briefing does raise questions. At some point the nose had to be quite low to descend so rapidly or the earlier briefing about 'severe pitch and roll' changes makes no sense.
Click to expand...


I'm not really speculating...just making some comments.


If the accident occurred after the flaps went to 15...that does not seem like a large enough flap setting to trigger a tail stall. If that is what occurred, it'll be surprising to me that flaps 15 induced it.

I think it is also a possibility that the flaps extended asymmetrically. At TWA we used to practice asymmetric flaps in the simulator in 727s...and it was practically an unrecoverable event...even when you knew it was coming.

Also, this accident seems very similar to the CMR crash in Detroit that went into an accelerated stall while joining the localizer during icing conditions.
 
MusketeerMan said:
I just have an absolute sick feeling about all of this and have been in a sort of depression since this happened. To all you Colgan guys & gals, hang in there and we've been praying for everyone involved.
Click to expand...

If you need to talk to someone, hit me up on AIM v1valarob.

Thursday night through about this afternoon I was still in denial about what had happened. But at this point reality has set in and its making it much easier to deal with.
 
From all your fellow pilots to the North (Canada), To our colleagues at Colgan you have our deepest condolences and are all in our thoughts and prayers, I am a huge lurker on this forum and have been for years, It's the Colganites that seem to dominate here and they seem to be really good people who contribute to our community here and are true professonals.

It is in tragic times like these that our community comes together and supports you, standing side by side and thats what we do today, the outpouring of support on these fourms is very heartfelt, and we are all standing by all of you today.

Once again, you have my deepest condolences, and are in my thoughts and prayers.

Matt from Canada.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top