jynxyjoe
Queso King
15 feet west.
Pinnacle Status?
- Thread starter citationCJ1
- Start date
15 feet west.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Not Pinnacle pilots. That routes been a Mesaba -900 for a while now....and good riddance.
More than likely in addition to from what I've heard. I'd be surprised if they withdrew the displacement.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
A LOA would cost the company a heck of a lot less than a displacement, but the mental anguish it causes the pilot is priceless for management probably.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
That was kinda what I was thinking, too. I was shocked when they didn't go the LOA route until they dropped the sim instructor thing. Then I realized they were looking to displace guys from the sim back to the line, not actually reduce staffing. I think this is to reduce staffing. From what I've heard, they want to reduce staffing for the summer as well yet still maintain the flexibility to cancel leaves in case they need the pilots.
My question is....how much notice do they give you. Are you on leave and in Europe when scheduling calls and says "Yeah, we're junior manning you for a trip tomorrow." But I'm on leave. "Yeah, that's canceled immediately. Your show time is 05:15. Thanks for all that you do."
dondk
New Member
hmm.. how to say this politically correct...
anything taller than a skyscaper has a few concerned... if you have been around long enough to remember those trips to Monterrey may give you a few more clues, those stories of the VOR approach some never forgot. Ironic since we went to Kalispell.
surmise your own opinions, but it really should not surprise many
dondk
New Member
not really if you think about it.. Displacing a higher priced CA to FO is easy, the costs associated (training is already accounted for and paid for). Sending FO's who have not passed probation out the door is also "free". A furlough is also cheap until the recall (if and when there is one).
a LOA does save some money, but only on the salary (which someone else is still getting the CA pay) short term.
The LOA for pilots with our contract I think is a bad idea. There are no set rules on the reentry to the line, training or retraining or re qualification.
Think of this scenario.. Pilot A takes the 6 month LOA, upon return they are dequaled. If staffing is still in the toilet and there is nothing compelling the company from taking weeks to requal the pilot (still unpaid by the way). Now what happens if they should be unsuccessful at the requal? Especially since per the FOTM they only need basically a "warm up" prior to the sim.
they are now for sure unpaid and in a real jeopardy position.
not to mention the reentry to bidding a line, a poorly executed return can equal up to 6 weeks on reserve with 2 weeks being #1 on the "your scheduling biatch". Seniority means nothing when you return and you don't have a line or a bid position.
LOA= putting a job in jeopardy, displacement= junior FO job in jeopardy.
why risk it?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I was wondering about that, too. If someone on LOA comes back, but they won't be available until the 16th, well, there's 6 weeks of RSV and not a thing you can do about it. With PBS, seniority doesn't mean jack when you're on RSV anyway. You could be on the bottom or top when it comes to RSV and have an equal chance of having 8-9 RR periods. I'm in the middle of the pack, and I lucked out for FEB. I had one RRL dropped on me. Someone 6 spots senior has 5 of the 9 hour RR shifts. During the "interface period" (which I thought didn't exist anymore), then can alter what PBS gave you as they see fit. This month, I had 4 or 5 PM RSV shifts, 4 RRP, 1 RRL and the rest AM RSV. Back in the day of paper bidding, you KNEW what your RSV line was gonna be for the month, and they couldn't change it unless they called you that day to replace a RR that had been used.
dondk
New Member
not exactly correct.
there is NO interface period, on or after the 24th at 1200 Central your calendar is "locked" (well almost). If they change or add something let the C3 know.
now with reserve... PBS it is different, you actually bid for reserve periods, not for the type of reserve. You can request a certain type of reserve with PBS but there is nothing compelling the company to provide it.
The issue with the ever changing reserve is they don't actually have staffing or assignments on certain days, so they can reassign reserve basically at will. As long as it is done in advance we have no argument.
The PBS grievance is huge.. I think we will get our day in court this year, as long as they don't fire anymore people!
blee256
Well-Known Member
Yeah I noticed that too. I would look into a KBR contract if i could get an LOA for a year(Which they arent offering right now). But what if i did, could they call me 4 months down the line and be like, you are scheduled for recurrent next week.
I got it, thanks. And we arent really talking about Monterrey are we?? I hope you are wrong. I would hate for Pinnacle to turn down west coast flying because of mishap.
dondk
New Member
word of wisdom with other flying and LOA. The company feels they "own you", if you choose to fly elsewhere they will set the pilot up for a immediate meeting with "proof" of what they are doing. If caught flying they will use the FOM reference to no other commercial flying. They have terminated a few guys this way, now their circumstances were diffferent.
We were only successful with stopping one lynching. I would not recommend it personally, no matter how nice the contract is. You woud be amazed at the lenghts this company goes to keep tab's on it's employee's.
that includes some former employee's too, a few years later and they are still watching them :whatever:
It is not managment (upper) that nixed it, but a department in flight op's that nixed it. No one wants to hear "I told you so".
blee256
Well-Known Member
Its not a flying job. but thats good info. whats wrong with this company???
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
well i assume you all got the no progress yet this week email from scott. Why are they even talking the rest of the week is my question, we all know what the response is going to be.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
This is not a game of instant gratification. Negotiations take time, patience, and compromise. The mediator tries to keep this process going- no matter how slow. After 5 days I am sure many different topics and proposals will have been discussed. We have been working for 4-years and each session is beneficial. Look at the failure of las July in DC. Sure NOTHING happened on the contract but the company lost points with the mediator and caused all further talks to be binding. I am all for a 30 day cooling off period but this all takes time. That being said I would not enjoy sitting across the table from folks who try and make everyone's life hell to try and make $1 more than they will lose via stupidity.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
I think we are all aware of that at this point
higney85
Property of Scheduling
My shoes are shined! I have run across many folks who think this new admin will simply grant us some "instant gratification". I'm just in a foul mood from mgmt's actions towards fellow co-workers among all the labor groups at 9e. Freezing executive pay ($500k + stock options) and then getting rid of entire departments? BS. How about a paycut as a show of common being since they were dumb enough to gamble all our cash away? Fred Smith did it even though the company still turns a profit! O wait- that's a group that shows at least a little compassion!
I need to go for a run....
dondk
New Member
There is ALWAYS progress, how it is communicated though is difficult. The pilot group wants to hear/see something to be be satisfied. Just to keep an issue open with the company is progress. I doubt the pilot wants to hear that though. There is progress behind the scenes, you can't read anything into it, but it is there.
Did anyone really expect leaps and bounds after the conference call?
dondk
New Member
there is more to this.. Uncle Phil and Co are cheap you know whats... they don't offer top dollar to any external candidate nor internal ones either. They supplement the weak salaries with stock options (they are worthless and have been for about 2 years) bonuses (those too are almost non existent for the last 18 months) and a honest to goodness decent 401K.
The company in the last 18 months or so lost several decent managers, all were due to the low end $$$ and/or career prospects.
with the suspension of the 401K, bonuses and worthless stock options, the only thing keeping some of the decent remaining managers is the crappy job market. Those decent ones I will bet will turn disgruntled in the near future.
the only question I have is when CS will finish his house in E. TN and retire, that should be the signal for the rest of the purple gang to move on and perhaps we can get some real talent to run the company.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Be nice if they'd at least tell us P2P guys what kind of progress was made, even if it didn't make it into writing. Even a "Well, we were THIS far apart on X issue, now we're only THIS far apart" would go a long way. Don't need to tell the whole pilot group, just get it out in the channels. That's what us guys sporting the red lanyards are for. I feel bad for ZC and PH. Every time I see 'em, I feel like I'm ambushing them.
