Oh Corpies LX

[form810]

I'm in and out of BOS (and EWR, JFK, LGA, IAD, PHL) single pilot in a Seneca a few times a week. The big airports aren't just for the big boys.

Besides, it's easy to be a hero when you have a crew, and a dispatch department and catering and flight attendants, and baggage handlers, etc.
_____
That said, any 63 year old with a stuffy nose can make a mistake. WTF was his FO when he went to take off without a clearance?

Fix

So, that is a very good question.

I do often fear the composition of crews these days. It's often an old guy (sometimes recently x-Airline) and a young guy (often fresh off a 172). While that might seem like a good mentoring opportunity, more often than we'd like, it's the senile-complacent leading the blind.

I've personally flown with several recent airline captain retreads who freaked out during garden variety visual approaches ('cause no ILS was entered into the box and no 8 mile final was ever gonna happen).

I've personally flown with recent flight school graduates who knew neither basic aerodynamics nor much of anything more about turbines than the fact that don't possess propellers.

Our side of the aviation industry includes many outstanding airmen. However, the new hire situation has grown frightful.

 

[Fixtur]

We all started somewhere. My first few trips on the CJ1 I was still back at the departure airport doing the lineup checklist while the captain was joining the arrival into LAS. I came up to speed, eventually.

That's probably why I was paired with experienced captains on a single pilot ship until I had the training wheels taken off, at which point I was paired with newer captains who needed a solid FO.

But even when I was climbing the steep 152 to CJ learning curve, I like to think that I was doing my job (working radios and watching the captain's back) adequately.

I'd like to think I would have noticed if someone tried to take the runway without a clearance too. This is not jet-specific. I'd expect any solo student pilot to pick up on something like that.

The THREE RULES of Part 135 flying (handed down to me by one of those first captains saddled with bringing me up to speed):
1. Don't bend metal.
2. Don't get violated.
3. Don't be that guy.

These have served me well in the years since.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

20 years, 20 months…what your point. Pretty similar to this G150!

Seems to me pilots can sometimes be idiots regardless (or irregardless for those of you that enjoy using double negatives) of what they fly or under which Part. Doesn’t make one group any less prone to answering for their stupidity.

THIS flight (3701) does have the rare distinction of be the “..most blatant display of indiscipline ever investigated by the NTSB…” Commies gotta be Commies!

No. I’d still maintain you see more stupidity at the 91 or 135 level, as opposed to 121.

 

[dustoff17]

No. I’d still maintain you see more stupidity at the 91 or 135 level, as opposed to 121.

Of course you do!
When one of your “Corpies” exceeds the display of indiscipline that these Commies did, get back to me. Until then, you enjoy being a Commie,

As for me, better dead than red!!

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I’ve only been flying with FOs for a few months but so far the junior ones are the best. I primarily fly with JR FOs considering my seniority as a captain. The ones senior to me have gotten complacent and have developed bad habits in a few cases.

I haven’t flown with a JR FO that wasn’t better than I ever was as an FO. All of them have been super open to mentorship.

I’m not super worried about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CFI A&P]

No. I’d still maintain you see more stupidity at the 91 or 135 level, as opposed to 121.

How much stupidity is trapped and mitigated by FOQA and LOSA programs in 121?

There’s a reason those programs exist in 121.

 

[Wardogg]

How much stupidity is trapped and mitigated by FOQA and LOSA programs in 121?

There’s a reason those programs exist in 121.

It's still in its infancy I think, but I'm an information gatekeeper for corporate FOQA. The problem is we are data rich and knowledge poor. We are still figuring out what to do with all the information.

 

[Kingairer]

It's still in its infancy I think, but I'm an information gatekeeper for corporate FOQA. The problem is we are data rich and knowledge poor. We are still figuring out what to do with all the information.

If nothing else at all, FOQA is a deterrent from
intentionally stupid behavior.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Of course you do!
When one of your “Corpies” exceeds the display of indiscipline that these Commies did, get back to me. Until then, you enjoy being a Commie,

As for me, better dead than red!!

I’m sorry, what? You’re asking for a Corpie example of what immature pilots did in a RJ?

Where would I even begin. That would make for a long post!

 

[Kingairer]

I’m sorry, what? You’re asking for a Corpie example of what immature pilots did in a RJ?

Where would I even begin. That would make for a long post!

Where is that video of the bizjet in the lake at that old Atlantic City airport?

 

[roundout]

Of course you do!
When one of your “Corpies” exceeds the display of indiscipline that these Commies did, get back to me. Until then, you enjoy being a Commie,

As for me, better dead than red!!

CC is actually right here. The disagreement I have is that he continuously roasts all corporate jocks as unsafe whenever a crew bends metal but is willing to wave off similar criticism of a 121 crew as just a couple idiots. Well yeah, that’s why we’re reading about them. To learn from their mistakes. That’s why ASAP and FOQA exist.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Where is that video of the bizjet in the lake at that old Atlantic City airport?

Gold Jerry! Gold!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wardogg]

Where is that video of the bizjet in the lake at that old Atlantic City airport?

Air Florida 90?

 

[roundout]

Where is that video of the bizjet in the lake at that old Atlantic City airport?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=px8awNCvQFM&pp=ygUaSmV0IGluIHdhdGVyIGF0bGFudGljIGNpdHk%3D

 

[CFI A&P]

It's still in its infancy I think, but I'm an information gatekeeper for corporate FOQA. The problem is we are data rich and knowledge poor. We are still figuring out what to do with all the information.

FOQA in corporate and charter is still a good idea, but as you said - still trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Not every airport serviced by 91/135 has a VNAV arrival leading to a CAT III ILS, which makes it tough to adapt and interpret FOQA/LOSA data trends from 121 operations and consider it an apples to apples comparison. A colleague of mine was coming from a very stand-up corporation operation and tasked with improving a bush operator's safety culture. Comparing the ILS 16R at VNY to an off-airport destination doesn't compute well with LOSA or SMS program requiring risk management analysis every flight for obvious reasons. Ultimately they were able to make headway and improvements, but there was an uphill learning curve when trying to compare People's Express Exemption 3585 against a bush flight to remote camp that doesn't have an ASOS/ AWOS or even phone service to ask an observer.

TWA 841, discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[knot4u]

We all started somewhere. My first few trips on the CJ1 I was still back at the departure airport doing the lineup checklist while the captain was joining the arrival into LAS. I came up to speed, eventually.

That's probably why I was paired with experienced captains on a single pilot ship until I had the training wheels taken off, at which point I was paired with newer captains who needed a solid FO.

But even when I was climbing the steep 152 to CJ learning curve, I like to think that I was doing my job (working radios and watching the captain's back) adequately.

I'd like to think I would have noticed if someone tried to take the runway without a clearance too. This is not jet-specific. I'd expect any solo student pilot to pick up on something like that.

The THREE RULES of Part 135 flying (handed down to me by one of those first captains saddled with bringing me up to speed):
1. Don't bend metal.
2. Don't get violated.
3. Don't be that guy.

These have served me well in the years since.

.4 Don't order the burrito.

 

[dustoff17]

CC is actually right here. The disagreement I have is that he continuously roasts all corporate jocks as unsafe whenever a crew bends metal but is willing to wave off similar criticism of a 121 crew as just a couple idiots. Well yeah, that’s why we’re reading about them. To learn from their mistakes. That’s why ASAP and FOQA exist.

I absolutely agree!
My point is exactly the same as yours. CC overlooks blatant stupidity of 121 pilots (like “…the most blatant display of indiscipline ever…”) but banters on about 91 pilots. It’s annoying, childish, an inaccurate.

Where is that video of the bizjet in the lake at that old Atlantic City airport?

Where is that video of the Commie plane in the grass off that old runway at Lexington airport?

 

[dustoff17]

I’m sorry, what? You’re asking for a Corpie example of what immature pilots did in a RJ?

Where would I even begin. That would make for a long post!

You should be. No, I wrote that when a Corporate pilot tops the NTSB’s list of “…the most blatant display of indiscipline ever investigated by the NTSB…”, THEN (and only then), get back to me. Right now, Commies top the list of stupidity, and NOT my list, the NTSB’s!

If we add up all the people killed by poor decisions made by Commies, will it be more or less than those killed by Corporate pilots. Never mind, it doesn’t really matter.

As for me, I think that ALL pilots don’t make sound decisions ALL the time. And in those rare, poor decision times, bad stuff often happens.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You should be. No, I wrote that when a Corporate pilot tops the NTSB’s list of “…the most blatant display of indiscipline ever investigated by the NTSB…”, THEN (and only then), get back to me. Right now, Commies top the list of stupidity, and NOT my list, the NTSB’s!

If we add up all the people killed by poor decisions made by Commies, will it be more or less than those killed by Corporate pilots. Never mind, it doesn’t really matter.

As for me, I think that ALL pilots don’t make sound decisions ALL the time. And in those rare, poor decision times, bad stuff often happens.

I don’t get what you are in about. Obviously, pax carriers are carrying more people per jet than a Corpie. So yes, one pax jet down could kill as much as 20 Corpie jets. Irrelevant metric you are measuring.

Stupidity? How about that TEB Learjet with a CA whose every other word was a cuss word, with zero situational awareness, and a FO not even rated to fly for his company (um, LOL, what?!)

Or the Katz G4. No checklist, no flight control checks, all dead.

Or the fact a LOT of Corpie jets can’t do RNAV RNP approaches like 121. Our shop has company-specific RNP approaches that involves RF legs, circle shapes to land on a runway. Much safer than CTL in marginal conditions - which has been a huge cause of Corpie crashes.


Corpies ops can contract pilots; at 121 airlines you will only get a FO trained and rated by that specific 121 airline.

The list goes on and on. It doesn’t compare.

121 > 135 > 91

 

[KLB]

I don’t get what you are in about. Obviously, pax carriers are carrying more people per jet than a Corpie. So yes, one pax jet down could kill as much as 20 Corpie jets. Irrelevant metric you are measuring.

Stupidity? How about that TEB Learjet with a CA whose every other word was a cuss word, with zero situational awareness, and a FO not even rated to fly for his company (um, LOL, what?!)

Or the Katz G4. No checklist, no flight control checks, all dead.

Or the fact a LOT of Corpie jets can’t do RNAV RNP approaches like 121. Our shop has company-specific RNP approaches that involves RF legs, circle shapes to land on a runway. Much safer than CTL in marginal conditions - which has been a huge cause of Corpie crashes.


Corpies ops can contract pilots; at 121 airlines you will only get a FO trained and rated by that specific 121 airline.

The list goes on and on. It doesn’t compare.

121 > 135 > 91

You have no idea what you're talking about here. There ate 91 departments out there who have tighter SMS programs and safety protocols than any 121 or 135 operator out there. You just don't know about them.

An RNP approach wouldn't work with a lot of the airports that corporate pilots fly into. So that's a moot point.