Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....

Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Polar742 said:
I was flying as CA, my FO was a furloughed UAL pilot and I had an FAA inspector in the jumpseat. We blasted out of IAH to IAD.

Apparently we missed a freq switch in cruise, and about the time we needed to come down, we tried all the methods to regain contact. Got a freq, and all was well.

None of the 3 of us heard any attempts to contact.

Stuff happens sometimes...
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This has happened to us twice now when we depart ORF at 6 am. Apparently, 0630 is about the time ZDC starts splitting off sectors, and sometimes they forget to transfer comms to whomever they transfer radar.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

I usually would query ATC with "Did I miss a handoff?", but that was the same old milkrun.
Maybe these guys just had the wrong IAF, instead?
:crazy:
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

SurferLucas said:
Just saw on the 11 o'clock news that the crew was not asleep at all, per the CVR...the person being interviewed wouldn't state anything further other than the crew was not asleep...so I guess we can put that one to rest?
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any newslink to story?
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

SurferLucas said:
Just saw on the 11 o'clock news that the crew was not asleep at all, per the CVR...the person being interviewed wouldn't state anything further other than the crew was not asleep...so I guess we can put that one to rest?
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It appears the person being interviewed was the pilot. Regardless of what happened,, what would you expect him to say, "Why yes, we were sleeping"? I doubt we will ever get enough convincing evidence either way. Sounds like the CVR will not be of any help. It may be a he said/she said....

Authorities are not expected to draw conclusions about the actions of pilot Timothy B. Cheney, 53, of Gig Harbor, Wash., and first officer Richard I. Cole, 54, of Salem, Ore., until next week at the earliest. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is in the process of scheduling interviews with the pilots.
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"I can assure you none of us was asleep," Cole told ABC News on Friday.
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http://www.startribune.com/local/65...c3E7_V_nDaycUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

If it turns out they were asleep it would be a good time to shine a spotlight on PNCL/others "non-punitive fatigue policy." you know, the ones that penalize the pilot ~$200/per.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

If they were asleep I'm sure the FAA/ALPA will bill examining their schedule that day. Hopefully it would only further bolster our position that rest requirements need reform.

It does seem that they're sticking to their guns that they weren't asleep. Sleeping has such a bad stigma attached to it in the cockpit, and rightfully so if both are doing so. But if it was something else such as a tense conversation, what can be said about their Situational Awareness?
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Baronman said:
If they were asleep I'm sure the FAA/ALPA will bill examining their schedule that day. Hopefully it would only further bolster our position that rest requirements need reform.

It does seem that they're sticking to their guns that they weren't asleep. Sleeping has such a bad stigma attached to it in the cockpit, and rightfully so if both are doing so. But if it was something else such as a tense conversation, what can be said about their Situational Awareness?
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.......were beginning what was to be a five-day flying stint. They started Tuesday with a flight from the Twin Cities to San Diego that was scheduled to land about 8 p.m., then had a 19-hour layover before their return flight Wednesday to the Twin Cities, airline records show.
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Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the easiest solution to the problem. Most of you guys are known for your watches. Can't one of ya set it so on the off chance you doze off, the watch will save your butt! :)
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Baronman said:
It does seem that they're sticking to their guns that they weren't asleep. Sleeping has such a bad stigma attached to it in the cockpit, and rightfully so if both are doing so. But if it was something else such as a tense conversation, what can be said about their Situational Awareness?
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They have backed themselves into a corner with this story. Over an hour and doing nothing in the airplane but discussing? The explanation is stupid and them holding onto the story is even worse. Worse yet, you can't offer retraining for this. What would the tng dept do? Have them sit in the sim for hours and every few minutes yell, "PAY ATTENTION!!!!"

I would have gone for the alien abduction before I would have used 'heated argument'. It is about as plausible.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

As for the CVR, I think DL (and any other US operator of the bus) may want to upgrade it to the 2h model.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Something was going on up there, that caused them to be out of radio contact and ignore basic airmanship for over an hour... Quite honestly, we need to learn what happened. Not to "punish" the pilots or anything like that, but to learn what happened so we can make sure this doesn't happen again.

We don't help our "cause", of deserving respect and more pay, when situations like this happen. Let's figure out what happened, and make appropriate changes.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

MQAAord said:
Something was going on up there, that caused them to be out of radio contact and ignore basic airmanship for over an hour... Quite honestly, we need to learn what happened. Not to "punish" the pilots or anything like that, but to learn what happened so we can make sure this doesn't happen again.

We don't help our "cause", of deserving respect and more pay, when situations like this happen. Let's figure out what happened, and make appropriate changes.
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Public now probably thinks, in respect to pay: "they deserve $21 an hour if all they have to do is sleep all during the flight! I make $8 an hour at [insert job here], and I have to work the whole time!"
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

MQAAord said:
Something was going on up there, that caused them to be out of radio contact and ignore basic airmanship for over an hour... Quite honestly, we need to learn what happened. Not to "punish" the pilots or anything like that, but to learn what happened so we can make sure this doesn't happen again.
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BUT the pilots may have elected to tell a lie and that is not an error. That is a violation, a willful decision. Such actions have consequence.
Part of a 'just culture' is abiding by the policy/procedures and being a professional.

This one is just ugly and because of the implausibility of the explanation, it is not going to end pretty.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

I can say that people I know (non-pilots) are joking about it and remember the NWA drinking issues of years (decades) ago.

Not a good week for DAL/NWA.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

ComplexHiAv8r said:
I can say that people I know are joking about it and remember the NWA drinking issues of years (decades) ago.

Not a good week for DAL/NWA.
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I remember those days too.

(as the FA beverage cart comes around)

"Would you like a drink, cocktail sir?"

"I'll have whatever mixed drink the flight deck is having......"

lol
 
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