Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....
- Thread starter JEP
- Start date
Heath
Well-Known Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
My thoughts exactly. What a stupid cover story! In the absence of proof they were sleeping, their cover story subjects them to discipline and termination.
If they're able to prove the pilots were asleep, then they're subject to discipline for sleeping AND lying, and could face criminal charges for the lying.
Had they come clean about sleeping and demanded action to reduce fatigue, they could've gotten off MUCH easier. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Always tell the truth and take your lumps!
My thoughts exactly. What a stupid cover story! In the absence of proof they were sleeping, their cover story subjects them to discipline and termination.
If they're able to prove the pilots were asleep, then they're subject to discipline for sleeping AND lying, and could face criminal charges for the lying.
Had they come clean about sleeping and demanded action to reduce fatigue, they could've gotten off MUCH easier. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Always tell the truth and take your lumps!
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
One thing I've learned, is that if you screw up, just admit it. Own up to what you've done, and move forward from there. A screw up is never made better by lies & coverups.
I am curious what happened in this situation. I find it very hard to believe that an argument or "heated discussion" could cause two experienced pilots to lose all situational awareness and completely disregard ALL flight duties.
One thing I've learned, is that if you screw up, just admit it. Own up to what you've done, and move forward from there. A screw up is never made better by lies & coverups.
I am curious what happened in this situation. I find it very hard to believe that an argument or "heated discussion" could cause two experienced pilots to lose all situational awareness and completely disregard ALL flight duties.
Qgar
New Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Sadly, there are many people in this world who think they're slicker than everyone else and figure they can get away with lying. It sometimes takes a while, but the truth ALWAYS comes out. Damn, I detest liars.
/rant.
Sadly, there are many people in this world who think they're slicker than everyone else and figure they can get away with lying. It sometimes takes a while, but the truth ALWAYS comes out. Damn, I detest liars.
/rant.
hudson26
New Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Pilots get in heated discussions ALL the time. I'm almost CERTAIN this isn't what happened on this flight.
I also think that it's quite possible the FA's woke them up. Let me ask you this: If they slept through ATC's frequency change and repeated attempts to reestablish communication, the radio volume was probably down. So why would they mysteriously wake up to the other NWA plane calling them?
Has anyone actually heard what it sounds like when the FA's call the cockpit on an A320? It's the most god awful sound you can imagine... and so loud you can hear it sitting in first class practically... it would certainly cause 2 sleeping people to be shocked awake...
The NTSB/FAA/FBI will get to the bottom of this... They will be sooooo screwed if they are caught for lying to federal investigators in addition to everything else....
Pilots get in heated discussions ALL the time. I'm almost CERTAIN this isn't what happened on this flight.
I also think that it's quite possible the FA's woke them up. Let me ask you this: If they slept through ATC's frequency change and repeated attempts to reestablish communication, the radio volume was probably down. So why would they mysteriously wake up to the other NWA plane calling them?
Has anyone actually heard what it sounds like when the FA's call the cockpit on an A320? It's the most god awful sound you can imagine... and so loud you can hear it sitting in first class practically... it would certainly cause 2 sleeping people to be shocked awake...
The NTSB/FAA/FBI will get to the bottom of this... They will be sooooo screwed if they are caught for lying to federal investigators in addition to everything else....
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Well, it really depends on the facts of the case above and beyond what the media's saying.
The ongoing joke is "I didn't know if it was the white pages, the orange pages, or the green pages, merger's goin' great..."
So if they asked someone that wasn't directly involved with the incident, probably cracking a joke, he'd have probably said "They were probably too busy arguing about policy changes" (yuk yuk).
Well, it really depends on the facts of the case above and beyond what the media's saying.
The ongoing joke is "I didn't know if it was the white pages, the orange pages, or the green pages, merger's goin' great..."
So if they asked someone that wasn't directly involved with the incident, probably cracking a joke, he'd have probably said "They were probably too busy arguing about policy changes" (yuk yuk).
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Maybe a dumb question, but do they have Delta North and Delta south crews flying together yet? I believe the only similar a/c are the 757's, correct?
Maybe a dumb question, but do they have Delta North and Delta south crews flying together yet? I believe the only similar a/c are the 757's, correct?
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Ok, now if this had been during the first week or so of mixed flight, I could see the heated debate on company issue....
Ok, now if this had been during the first week or so of mixed flight, I could see the heated debate on company issue....
KLB
Well-Known Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Sorry, but there's this Louisana judge that doesn't believe in crew mixing. He says it ruins companies.
Sorry, but there's this Louisana judge that doesn't believe in crew mixing. He says it ruins companies.
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
I wouldn't be surprised if this incident doesn't trigger some sort of FAA mandate to have FAs check on the flight deck every 20 min or so; or, install some sort of beeper on the flight deck that would ring every few minutes requiring the pilots to physically reset it. We aren't doing ourselves any favors by continuing to do stupid things that just provides fodder to our beloved 24 hour "starved for news" media.
I wouldn't be surprised if this incident doesn't trigger some sort of FAA mandate to have FAs check on the flight deck every 20 min or so; or, install some sort of beeper on the flight deck that would ring every few minutes requiring the pilots to physically reset it. We aren't doing ourselves any favors by continuing to do stupid things that just provides fodder to our beloved 24 hour "starved for news" media.
JaceTheAce'sDad
Flying the Duchess.
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
There will be two open spots at this airline me thinks.
There will be two open spots at this airline me thinks.
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
I was once in a heated discussion here on JC in the Airline Pilot's forum about union issues while on the way home from TUS while driving with a friend. Next thing we knew, we were passing by freeway exits for PHX!
.....I'll be here all week!
I was once in a heated discussion here on JC in the Airline Pilot's forum about union issues while on the way home from TUS while driving with a friend. Next thing we knew, we were passing by freeway exits for PHX!
.....I'll be here all week!Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
-mini
Kind of like all of the "make sure you use the right runway" comments shortly after the LEX thing?
-mini
hudson26
New Member
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Several airlines (I think jet blue tried it) made policies that the FAs should check on the pilots so often but then you just have captains who think they can change the rules and say in their briefing "Don't call us we will call you" and it just turns into another thing that makes the cockpit door even thicker than it already is....
A loud obnoxious chime that cannot be muted every 15 minutes (Above 10,000 feet) would do the trick...
Several airlines (I think jet blue tried it) made policies that the FAs should check on the pilots so often but then you just have captains who think they can change the rules and say in their briefing "Don't call us we will call you" and it just turns into another thing that makes the cockpit door even thicker than it already is....
A loud obnoxious chime that cannot be muted every 15 minutes (Above 10,000 feet) would do the trick...
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
man, all the reading of this thread has made me tired.
Time to turn into bed and debate some company policies.
man, all the reading of this thread has made me tired.
Time to turn into bed and debate some company policies.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Just saw on the 11 o'clock news that the crew was not asleep at all, per the CVR...the person being interviewed wouldn't state anything further other than the crew was not asleep...so I guess we can put that one to rest?
Just saw on the 11 o'clock news that the crew was not asleep at all, per the CVR...the person being interviewed wouldn't state anything further other than the crew was not asleep...so I guess we can put that one to rest?
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....
Our airplane has that. If you don't touch anything in the cockpit for a set length of time, first you get an EICAS message then you get a beeper.
I've played the "sit on your hands" game to try to get at it, but I've never succeeded yet.
Other than running a timer from wheels up, I don't know what other SA the FAs would have over the midwest....
However, I'll tell this story.
I was flying as CA, my FO was a furloughed UAL pilot and I had an FAA inspector in the jumpseat. We blasted out of IAH to IAD.
Apparently we missed a freq switch in cruise, and about the time we needed to come down, we tried all the methods to regain contact. Got a freq, and all was well.
None of the 3 of us heard any attempts to contact.
Stuff happens sometimes...
I wouldn't be surprised if this incident doesn't trigger some sort of FAA mandate to have FAs check on the flight deck every 20 min or so; or, install some sort of beeper on the flight deck that would ring every few minutes requiring the pilots to physically reset it. We aren't doing ourselves any favors by continuing to do stupid things that just provides fodder to our beloved 24 hour "starved for news" media.
Our airplane has that. If you don't touch anything in the cockpit for a set length of time, first you get an EICAS message then you get a beeper.
I've played the "sit on your hands" game to try to get at it, but I've never succeeded yet.
Other than running a timer from wheels up, I don't know what other SA the FAs would have over the midwest....
However, I'll tell this story.
I was flying as CA, my FO was a furloughed UAL pilot and I had an FAA inspector in the jumpseat. We blasted out of IAH to IAD.
Apparently we missed a freq switch in cruise, and about the time we needed to come down, we tried all the methods to regain contact. Got a freq, and all was well.
None of the 3 of us heard any attempts to contact.
Stuff happens sometimes...