Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....

Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

RICHARD5 said:
heh heh That reminds me...they weren't sleeping but a friend of mine on a dual instruction flight with his CFI...the twin landed itself...each thought the other had the controls.

It would tick me off to wake up to find the other was napping. :dunno:
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Did they both say "good landing" at the same time.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

WOW! As a former (and hopefully, future) Flight Attendant, didn't THEY notice anything was amiss? :dunno:
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Trip7 said:
I also agree that if "Connection" had been written on the side of the plane this thread would be 8 pages discussing low timers and the lack of professionalism in regional cockpits. Now we got 2 incidents involving highly experienced mainline crews and nobody knows what to say because they can't throw the blame at low pay or inexperience.

Dare I say it, maybe the last two incidents should be an eye opener towards the TRUE safety threat in the industry, FATIGUE.

Its been said that being fatigued is much like being drunk.
Maybe Capt Renslow truly did know how to recover from a stall but was too fatigued to react correctly.
Maybe the Delta pilots truly did know to land on a runway but were too fatigued to do so
Maybe the DeltaWest pilots tried to stay awake but were too fatigued to do so.
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:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

Maybe old farts who are fatigued are more of a problem than young pilots who get less fatigued...huh? huh?
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

LoadMasterC141 said:
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

Maybe old farts who are fatigued are more of a problem than young pilots who get less fatigued...huh? huh?
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I know about one case that involved a young crew (military). AC was about 29, the Co was about 28, and the Boom was probably no older than 31. The entire crew was asleep for probably about 15 minutes while crossing the ocean. The AC had directed the crew members to take rotating naps, since they had been activated about 38 hours into a 48 hour telephone alert very late in the day and had a 16 hour duty day ahead of them... then he fell asleep while the other two crew were on their naps. Nothing came of it, though, because when the AC woke up the plane was still on autopilot crossing the ocean, and they had not missed any position reports or radio calls.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Sol Rosenburg said:
In my work its very easy to snooze off when its smooth. Anybody ever heard the mention of crew alerters like they have installed in train locos that sound every few minutes or seconds?
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You can buy these things that you put on your ear that when your head falls forward past a certain degree it buzzes, they're designed for driving but I imagine it works equally well flying too.

It's frelling ridiculous that I'm even recommending something like that though, if you think about it. They're pretty cheap though.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

They probably forgot to reset their alarm clocks from San Diego time to Minneapolis time. Could happen to anyone!
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Shoot - just as my DAL stocks were beginning to rise out of the toilet!
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Trip7 said:
I also agree that if "Connection" had been written on the side of the plane this thread would be 8 pages discussing low timers and the lack of professionalism in regional cockpits. Now we got 2 incidents involving highly experienced mainline crews and nobody knows what to say because they can't throw the blame at low pay or inexperience.

Dare I say it, maybe the last two incidents should be an eye opener towards the TRUE safety threat in the industry, FATIGUE.

Its been said that being fatigued is much like being drunk.
Maybe Capt Renslow truly did know how to recover from a stall but was too fatigued to react correctly.
Maybe the Delta pilots truly did know to land on a runway but were too fatigued to do so
Maybe the DeltaWest pilots tried to stay awake but were too fatigued to do so.
Click to expand...


I agree with that Marcus. Wow, what a week for "DeltaWest".
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

ajf005 said:
It would be breaking news on every channel, all regionals would be grounded, and all regional FO's would be waterboarded to see if they ever flew fatigued, tired, drowsy etc... :)
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hardly anyone (the public) remembers the go pilots falling asleep in hi. there are a few other regional accidents the public remember though.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Qgar said:
WOW! As a former (and hopefully, future) Flight Attendant, didn't THEY notice anything was amiss? :dunno:
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Have you not noticed that many flight attendants are oblivious to the world around them? Add to that the fact that 150 miles doesn't take that long in a jet, and it's easy for them to be caught up in the aft galley with their U.S. Monthly and people . . .
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Yes, I have witnessed that on mainline flights many times. At Colgan, we were not permitted to do it. I witnessed it numerous times, but not once after I became an ATS!

Burns my ass, too. ALL members of the crew need to have situation awareness, not just the pilots.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Qgar said:
Yes, I have witnessed that on mainline flights many times. At Colgan, we were not permitted to do it. I witnessed it numerous times, but not once after I became an ATS!

Burns my ass, too. ALL members of the crew need to have situation awareness, not just the pilots.
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It's good to hear that.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

mtsu_av8er said:
Have you not noticed that many flight attendants are oblivious to the world around them? Ad to that the fact that 150 miles doesn't take that long in a jet, and it's easy for them to be caught up in the aft galley with their U.S. Monthly and people . . .
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Wow, and pilots never sit with their USA Today? That was a really harsh statement, and surprising to hear from you.

F/As (for some strange reason) usually trust the pilots to safely operate & navigate the plane. What if the pilots were the "shut up and don't bother us" type...

I wasn't on the flight, so I can't say with certainty why the F/As didn't notice, but my educated guess is that enough time hadn't elapsed to raise red flags.
 
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