Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....
- Thread starter JEP
- Start date
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
-mini
Did they mean round trip? 73x2=146. Close enough to 150.
-mini
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Remember, using the FAA's new "Threat and Error Matrix", you plug in the deviation, follow the chart, automagic penalty. They took ALL of the, uhh, for the lack of a better description "common sense" out of the mix.
Remember, using the FAA's new "Threat and Error Matrix", you plug in the deviation, follow the chart, automagic penalty. They took ALL of the, uhh, for the lack of a better description "common sense" out of the mix.
Slugger
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Reading the letters the FAA sent to them gets me angry for some reason.
http://stmedia.startribune.com/docu...ised.pdf?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUUr
http://stmedia.startribune.com/documents/cole+emor_Revised.pdf?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUUr
They can apply for airman certificates one year from today.
Reading the letters the FAA sent to them gets me angry for some reason.
http://stmedia.startribune.com/docu...ised.pdf?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUUr
http://stmedia.startribune.com/documents/cole+emor_Revised.pdf?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUUr
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
The general public has a pretty high expectation of pilots. They expect that mistakes will never ever happen. And from how it sounds, these guys screwed the pooch anyway.
Here in Florida, Doctors have a "three strikes you are out" rule. Lose three malpractice cases, and your career is over. And doctors get sued a lot, since for the most part, they only see sick people, and a lot of them are going to die anyway.
Aviation is in many ways a "one strike you are out" business, as once you are one TV, it is going to be pretty hard to find another job. One consolation, you typically have to be dead to end up on TV.
I guess thats another reason I only ever aspired to be a weekend CFI (or hopefully a DPE someday in my retirement)
As someone with a TV news reporter ex wife, I can tell you - never say anything to a reporter. No good will ever come of it for you.
The general public has a pretty high expectation of pilots. They expect that mistakes will never ever happen. And from how it sounds, these guys screwed the pooch anyway.
Here in Florida, Doctors have a "three strikes you are out" rule. Lose three malpractice cases, and your career is over. And doctors get sued a lot, since for the most part, they only see sick people, and a lot of them are going to die anyway.
Aviation is in many ways a "one strike you are out" business, as once you are one TV, it is going to be pretty hard to find another job. One consolation, you typically have to be dead to end up on TV.
I guess thats another reason I only ever aspired to be a weekend CFI (or hopefully a DPE someday in my retirement)
As someone with a TV news reporter ex wife, I can tell you - never say anything to a reporter. No good will ever come of it for you.
vheissu
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Why does that make you angry? Two professionals totally disregarded their JOB for some unexplainable reason. Either way, there really is no excuse.. I wouldn't expect anything different if I goofed.
Why does that make you angry? Two professionals totally disregarded their JOB for some unexplainable reason. Either way, there really is no excuse.. I wouldn't expect anything different if I goofed.
Slugger
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
The way it's worded. If they present a threat to air commerce safety, why revoke everything and not let them keep their private? I don't know, but I don't like the way it's worded (mostly the word "you").
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Novice question, but when you get a Commercial do you no longer have a PPL because the Commercial covers it all. Additionally, when you get an ATP, do you no longer have the lower licenses as ATP covers it all? The letter only says that the ATP is revoked. Does the ATP include all the licenses?
Novice question, but when you get a Commercial do you no longer have a PPL because the Commercial covers it all. Additionally, when you get an ATP, do you no longer have the lower licenses as ATP covers it all? The letter only says that the ATP is revoked. Does the ATP include all the licenses?
mxflyer
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Government is trying to standardize across the board...common sense can't possibly have a place in Government.
I feel bad for these guys.
Government is trying to standardize across the board...common sense can't possibly have a place in Government.
I feel bad for these guys.
twotwowoo
New Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
You can get your ratings back, but you have to wait one (1) year before you can do so.
You can get your ratings back, but you have to wait one (1) year before you can do so.
Slugger
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Then why does anybody work for the FAA department that deals with the revocations, etc.? We could just have a computer there and not waste taxpayer dollars. A robot could probably do just as well as a human and wouldn't cost any money.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
You only have one certificate. You can have privileges for other things (category/class/type), but the certificate is student/private/commercial/ATP, for the highest you hold.
You only have one certificate. You can have privileges for other things (category/class/type), but the certificate is student/private/commercial/ATP, for the highest you hold.
twotwowoo
New Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
I totally agree. They were ATP rated pilots who were entrusted with the LIVES of HUNDREDS of paying passengers in the back, as well as with the LIVES of the FAs and those on the ground below them. That type of situational awareness loss is inexcusable. They deserved to lose their licenses. I also tend to lean towards leniency, so I think that a fine and one year suspension of their licenses would have been better, but oh well. If I did the same thing I would expect to have my certificates revoked as well. In one year, they can take their checkrides and get their certs back, if they so choose.
I totally agree. They were ATP rated pilots who were entrusted with the LIVES of HUNDREDS of paying passengers in the back, as well as with the LIVES of the FAs and those on the ground below them. That type of situational awareness loss is inexcusable. They deserved to lose their licenses. I also tend to lean towards leniency, so I think that a fine and one year suspension of their licenses would have been better, but oh well. If I did the same thing I would expect to have my certificates revoked as well. In one year, they can take their checkrides and get their certs back, if they so choose.
Slugger
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Wait, this is very random, but did the pilots who landed the 767 on the taxiway in ATL get their licenses revoked? They broke the same regulations as these 2 fellas.
-endangering people and property
-not complying with ATC instructions
Wait, this is very random, but did the pilots who landed the 767 on the taxiway in ATL get their licenses revoked? They broke the same regulations as these 2 fellas.
-endangering people and property
-not complying with ATC instructions
vheissu
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Overflying your destination by 150 miles and being out of contact with ATC isn't a threat to safety? Fuel, traffic, etc? "You" is correct considering the PIC has control of his plane, and both him and his SIC goofed. I don't see your argument.
Overflying your destination by 150 miles and being out of contact with ATC isn't a threat to safety? Fuel, traffic, etc? "You" is correct considering the PIC has control of his plane, and both him and his SIC goofed. I don't see your argument.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
These guys would have lost their jobs, revocation or not. If reports are correct, there is a policy against firing up your laptop while flying. I don't know if that's accurate but perhaps Dough could tell us whether that's the case.
If it is, then honestly, getting their tickets revoked is the least of their worries. They aren't going to be getting a paycheck from their current employer for much longer. And they won't be getting unemployment, either, because their termination will be for cause.
These guys would have lost their jobs, revocation or not. If reports are correct, there is a policy against firing up your laptop while flying. I don't know if that's accurate but perhaps Dough could tell us whether that's the case.
If it is, then honestly, getting their tickets revoked is the least of their worries. They aren't going to be getting a paycheck from their current employer for much longer. And they won't be getting unemployment, either, because their termination will be for cause.
tgrayson
New Member
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
Not necessarily. If you got a Private MEL, when you get a Commercial SEL, your ME privileges are still at the private level.
Not necessarily. If you got a Private MEL, when you get a Commercial SEL, your ME privileges are still at the private level.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket
I have ever seen somebody with a Commercial SEL that has a Private Multi. They would do a Commercial add on for the MEL...
I have ever seen somebody with a Commercial SEL that has a Private Multi. They would do a Commercial add on for the MEL...