Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....

Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Doug Taylor said:
I can potentially see a suspension, but a revocation sounds a little politically motivated.
Click to expand...
Especially given the timetable, yeah. I can see possible revocation after an extended inquiry, but this seems like a knee-jerk reaction. Then again, this just might be the kind of mistake you only get to make once.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

well, they dont have to start over on thier hours, no one can take those, but everything else, yeah.
they dropped the ball, and the FAA is definitely harsh, but you have to deal with them if you put people in danger, and they did.

that has to burn.

burn.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

They didn't just make a mistake, they blatantly disregarded the rules and lost all situational awareness. They may be very good pilots but they made a career ending mistake. I would expect the same to happen to me if I did what they did.
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Im not sure if these guys should lose their certificates.

Sure lose their job, and have some sort of punishment, but full removal? Kinda ouch no?
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Bigey said:
Im not sure if these guys should lose their certificates.

Sure lose their job, and have some sort of punishment, but full removal? Kinda ouch no?
Click to expand...
I agree, they should have lost their jobs, even had their certs suspended for a year or two. It's not like the flight ended in disaster...
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

I think it would have been better if they had just admitted that they fell asleep...
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Baronman said:
I think it would have been better if they had just admitted that they fell asleep...
Click to expand...
Probably.

Suspension from the line, fill out a NASA form, take your 30 days off and get back to work.

...unless they weren't sleeping.

-mini
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

USMCmech said:
Actually, your hours still count.

You could fly 3 hours with a CFI and take the checkride for each rating.
Click to expand...
Wow. That hardly seems like a huge hurdle.

Of course, getting someone to hire you...................

-mini
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

I know one airline that had a pilot fall asleep flying pax in a navajo the FAA never found out and now that pilot is the director of safety.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

USMCmech said:
Actually, your hours still count.

You could fly 3 hours with a CFI and take the checkride for each rating.
Click to expand...

Really? I could have sworn it was like your slate was wiped completely clear.

I will admit I could be wrong though! :)
 
Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Get people up and down safely for 30000 hours, get canned on your 'first' mistake that hurt no one.

The average person in the public does nothing worth a damn all day compared to what these guys do. Sure, most people don't make mistakes that big... but that's because most people don't have any real responsibility to anything in the first place. Sitting in a cubicle thumbing your butt and writing TPS reports does not give you a voice on the qualifications of those that fly $100 million airplanes. At all.

This is a damned disgrace. There were many better options.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

The bigger question is how long before video recorders in the cockpit rears its head once again... and does ALPA have the political capital to fight it this time.

Heck, with today's technology digital imaging could be transmitted immediately to your dispatcher or chief pilot via satellite. Those guys let the camel's nose under the tent in my opinion.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Those guys screwed up but I can see how it happens. I've lost contact with atc before and just kept flying. One time doing time building up the coast of Florida at 2 in the morning I went about an hour without talking to ATC (really quiet night). I finally checked in when I looked down and saw MCO. ATC said, there you guys are contact daytona on..... Nothing came of it, though I think I filed a NASA, it was a few years ago.

These guys screwed up but worse things have happened. I think someones certificates should only be revoked for blatant disregard for safety ie showing up drunk. Otherwise slap them with a healthy suspension and some sort of aviation comunity service like emptying lavs for a couple weeks on the ramp. Then give the guys their hats back.
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

I wonder if 10 days from now we'll see a follow up story...

"The pilots had 10 days to appeal the revocation of their certificates, but were distracted by a new scheduling system and missed the deadline...."
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

tonyw said:
The FAA isn't playing around.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125667787989311361.html?mod=rss_US_News

In its emergency revocation, which is effective immediately, the Federal Aviation Administration said the veteran pilots, Capt. Timothy B. Cheney and first officer Richard Cole, violated a number of regulations and operated the aircraft in a careless manner.
Click to expand...


. . .and I'll need some help here:

violated a number of regulations
Click to expand...


They screwed up. Won't argue, however, personally, I do believe this infraction is not as bad as falling asleep. As a passenger, hypothethically. . .I'd be more relieved that they were significantly distracted vice snoring and drooling on their shirts.

operated the aircraft in a careless manner.
Click to expand...


OK, again they missed many significant checkpoints, but just how "careless" were they? As subjective as it is, (and they were) my question about revocation vice suspension. . .where's the rationale? I mean, if they were fired by the company for regulation violations with a suspended certificate. . .again, who would hire them?
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

MFT1Air said:
OK, again they missed many significant checkpoints, but just how "careless" were they?
Click to expand...
Isn't that like saying "Drunk driving isn't reckless if you don't hit anything"?

(I'm not comparing alcohol to using a laptop, just that by pure accident/luck these guys DIDN'T cause something devastating doesn't mean it wasn't careless or reckless)
 
Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

MQAAord said:
If things went down as the report says, those guys deserve to have their tickets revoked. They completely neglected all flight duties for almost an hour and a half! That is unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Spoken like someone who hasn't put forth the effort and expense to acquire those certificates herself.

They screwed up, they lost their jobs, and that should be enough. The safety of their aircraft, crew and passengers wasn't jeopardized, so to render them unemployable is taking it too far. This is exactly the sort of thing suspension or even a 709 ride is for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top