Northwest Overshoot / Cert Action....

[Buzo]

Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

Would filing a NASA form have helped in this case? Just curious.
I wonder if they did - if so will that come out in the appeal?

BP244

Normally NASA or ASAP will not help in this case. They do not include willful or intentional violation of the regs.

 

[tgrayson]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

As such, I think you have one pilot certificate. In my case it was a commercial certificate, although I didn't have commercial privileges in every category/class I held privileges in.

The piece of plastic in your wallet isn't your certificate, any more than your college diploma is your degree. Lose either and you can get it replaced. To say that you don't hold a Private certificate when you have only Private privileges in a ME aircraft doesn't have any real meaning.

 

[Orange Anchor]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Novice question, but when you get a Commercial do you no longer have a PPL because the Commercial covers it all. Additionally, when you get an ATP, do you no longer have the lower licenses as ATP covers it all? The letter only says that the ATP is revoked. Does the ATP include all the licenses?

At one time I held an ATP for various types, a commercial for one type and a private for gliders so you can have all 3 at one time.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: DeltaWest Overshoots Destination....

That's too bad. Does that mean they have to go back and get each and ever certificate again, starting from Private?

Anyone know?

 

[NOGUFFCHET]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

The piece of plastic in your wallet isn't your certificate, any more than your college diploma is your degree. Lose either and you can get it replaced. To say that you don't hold a Private certificate when you have only Private privileges in a ME aircraft doesn't have any real meaning.

yeah, but if they take your college diploma away you can still be useful at your job. I agree that its more than a card, but without the card you are pretty much limited to sitting at the bar and telling everyone how good of a pilot you are:beer:. even if Michael Jordan were to break his legs hes still riding pine.

 

[Nigel Croker]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Nope, spoken by someone who thinks they did something incredibly stupid, that's all. I'm only a PPL, so I can't possibly understand anything about professional piloting.. MmmHmm. FWIW, these guys are getting raked on EagleLounge and most of them are saying they deserved the revocation too.

A few thoughts of mine: I do not think the DL guys who landed on the taxiway should have their certs revoked. They screwed up too, however, they had a check airman jumpseater with a medical emergency. While distracted by their medical emergency situation, they still flew the airplane! Yes they landed on a taxiway, but I [personal opinion] can give more leniency to that than completely disregarding and ignoring all flight duties for over and hour and overflying their destination city by 150m!

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on. The Taxiway landing was every bit as bad if not worse. The so called medical emergancy has been moved to the cabin, off the flightdeck, so no longer a concern for distraction on the Flightdeck. And a medical emergancy is never an excuse to land on a taxiway, the needs of one do not outweight the safety of the other 200+, and if you cannot see that or make that tough call someday stay in a piper please. All it would have taken was 1 single 737 holding short on that taxiway and we would be discussing the 2nd greatest aviation disaster since tenneriffe. Do you honestly not see that....wow

 

[tonyw]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

They screwed up, they lost their jobs, and that should be enough...so to render them unemployable is taking it too far.

They rendered themselves unemployable with their own actions. The FAA just piled on at the end.

They pretty much said, I know I was supposed to be flying the plane, but I was deeply involved in explaining how the scheduling system works and got distracted. For an hour. Is that the kind of person who you'd trust with an airplane?

A mistake is landing on a taxiway instead of a runway.

Blowing off what you're supposed to be doing because you wanted to figure out how a scheduling system works is completely different.

while the two pilots involved have no logical choice but to keep quiet.

They didn't keep quiet. They're the ones who first said they were having a discussion about company policies that got so heated they neglected to pay attention to flying. Then they changed their story and said that one of them was demonstrating how to use the scheduling system.

Their decision to talk was another horrible one. The only thing they should have said was "no comment."

 

[WestIndian425]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Nope, spoken by someone who thinks they did something incredibly stupid, that's all. I'm only a PPL, so I can't possibly understand anything about professional piloting.. MmmHmm. FWIW, these guys are getting raked on EagleLounge and most of them are saying they deserved the revocation too.

A few thoughts of mine: I do not think the DL guys who landed on the taxiway should have their certs revoked. They screwed up too, however, they had a check airman jumpseater with a medical emergency. While distracted by their medical emergency situation, they still flew the airplane! Yes they landed on a taxiway, but I [personal opinion] can give more leniency to that than completely disregarding and ignoring all flight duties for over and hour and overflying their destination city by 150m!

I agree.

 

[OldTownPilot]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on. The Taxiway landing was every bit as bad if not worse. The so called medical emergancy has been moved to the cabin, off the flightdeck, so no longer a concern for distraction on the Flightdeck. And a medical emergancy is never an excuse to land on a taxiway, the needs of one do not outweight the safety of the other 200+, and if you cannot see that or make that tough call someday stay in a piper please. All it would have taken was 1 single 737 holding short on that taxiway and we would be discussing the 2nd greatest aviation disaster since tenneriffe. Do you honestly not see that....wow

You better not ever fly on a Continental flight either. Both the pilots that landed on 'Zulu' are back in the skies endangering every single human being out there

 

[Dynasty22]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Kinda feel bad for them, as if the FAA and the media in general is too harsh on this. Tell me this hasnt happened before? Lose contact and situational awareness?

 

[tlove482]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Side note. . .secondary to all others but precipitating of course.

Is the dang scheduling software that hard to figure out?

It was 2 old guys trying to use a laptop. Have you ever tried to teach your parents to surf the web?

 

[WestIndian425]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on. The Taxiway landing was every bit as bad if not worse. The so called medical emergancy has been moved to the cabin, off the flightdeck, so no longer a concern for distraction on the Flightdeck. And a medical emergancy is never an excuse to land on a taxiway, the needs of one do not outweight the safety of the other 200+, and if you cannot see that or make that tough call someday stay in a piper please. All it would have taken was 1 single 737 holding short on that taxiway and we would be discussing the 2nd greatest aviation disaster since tenneriffe. Do you honestly not see that....wow

Okay...how about the perspective of someone with a little more than a PPL? I agree with Amber. Both incidents are serious, but there's a difference between a mistake (which could have been costly if there was another aircraft on the taxiway...I'll give you that), and a BLATANT disregard of the rules.

That being said...I highly doubt the pilot's heads were down when landing in ATL...taxiway or runway, if there's traffic visible, it's automatic go-around. I'm sure the crew of the CO 757 that did that in EWR could agree that it was a mistake, but not a blatant, willful disregard of the rules.

 

[KTRN]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on. The Taxiway landing was every bit as bad if not worse. The so called medical emergancy has been moved to the cabin, off the flightdeck, so no longer a concern for distraction on the Flightdeck. And a medical emergancy is never an excuse to land on a taxiway, the needs of one do not outweight the safety of the other 200+, and if you cannot see that or make that tough call someday stay in a piper please. All it would have taken was 1 single 737 holding short on that taxiway and we would be discussing the 2nd greatest aviation disaster since tenneriffe. Do you honestly not see that....wow

Good point. How could these pilots not differentiate the runway lights from the taxiway lights? These incidents sure are tarnishing DAL image which is kinda sad d/t there's plenty of competent pilots who fly for them.

 

[WestIndian425]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

It was 2 old guys trying to use a laptop. Have you ever tried to teach your parents to surf the web?

LOL!! That's just wrong, man!!

 

[Nigel Croker]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Okay...how about the perspective of someone with a little more than a PPL? I agree with Amber. Both incidents are serious, but there's a difference between a mistake (which could have been costly if there was another aircraft on the taxiway...I'll give you that), and a BLATANT disregard of the rules.

That being said...I highly doubt the pilot's heads were down when landing in ATL...taxiway or runway, if there's traffic visible, it's automatic go-around. I'm sure the crew of the CO 757 that did that in EWR could agree that it was a mistake, but not a blatant, willful disregard of the rules.

I never said it wasnt a mistake, personally my opinion is both crews deserve to have their certs suspended: (90 days for taxiway landing and 180 for the NW Bus.) I agree one was not willful and wanton, but just as much a safety risk and to ignore that fact is a diservice to all of us. Everyone talks about the ATL landing like it was no big deal, and I severely disagree on that point. It was pure luck no one was on that taxiway, and dont hand me this story that if another plane was on the taxiway they would have seen it, because I say if they were paying that much attention, they would have landed between the white lights...and not the blue ones

 

[Nigel Croker]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

You better not ever fly on a Continental flight either. Both the pilots that landed on 'Zulu' are back in the skies endangering every single human being out there

I never said that, I think both these crews should be suspended and punished, but to end their careers is a bit steep. Suspension not revocation fit's, I believe. Im willing to say all four of these pilots will be the least likely to be repeat offenders, and if they had clean records to this point then a second chance is in order after they pay for their crimes.

 

[BCTAv8r]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

The following IS NOT universal advice.



I remember when we lost the engine out of ORD a few years ago when I was on the MD-90. I could have said, on open tower frequency "Southernjets 1225! Mayday mayday! We've lost an engine! Need immediate vectors to 32L! Fuel on board 38 thousand four hundred, one hundred fifty one souls on board..."

Apparently, not everyone at Southernjets thinks like you do.

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6712.0;attach=2920

 

[MQAAord]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on.

:laff:

Okay


edit: I see one as, in the course of performing flight duties, they made a big mistake and landed on a taxiway. Big mistake, and they'll have disciplinary actions, for sure. The other, neglected ALL flight duties for over an hour... missing their destination airport completely, being brought back to reality by the flight attendants. I see the second as revocation-worthy, and the first as not revocation-worthy. Never said what the DL guys did wasn't a big mistake, it certainly was, and they too will be facing discipline for what happened.

 

[WestIndian425]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

I never said it wasnt a mistake, personally my opinion is both crews deserve to have their certs suspended: (90 days for taxiway landing and 180 for the NW Bus.) I agree one was not willful and wanton, but just as much a safety risk and to ignore that fact is a diservice to all of us. Everyone talks about the ATL landing like it was no big deal, and I severely disagree on that point. It was pure luck no one was on that taxiway, and dont hand me this story that if another plane was on the taxiway they would have seen it, because I say if they were paying that much attention, they would have landed between the white lights...and not the blue ones

Well, I'm not everyone, and I do believe that what happened in ATL (and also at EWR) is a big deal...but it was a mistake. That's not a reckless and careless operation of the aircraft, nor willful violation of the rules.

From purely a safety standpoint, you make sense. Both are serious matters. However, the willful intent is what really stands out.

 

[JEP]

Re: Northwest Overshoot Pilots Lose Ticket

Nope, spoken by someone who thinks they did something incredibly stupid, that's all. I'm only a PPL, so I can't possibly understand anything about professional piloting.. MmmHmm. FWIW, these guys are getting raked on EagleLounge and most of them are saying they deserved the revocation too.

A few thoughts of mine: I do not think the DL guys who landed on the taxiway should have their certs revoked. They screwed up too, however, they had a check airman jumpseater with a medical emergency. While distracted by their medical emergency situation, they still flew the airplane! Yes they landed on a taxiway, but I [personal opinion] can give more leniency to that than completely disregarding and ignoring all flight duties for over and hour and overflying their destination city by 150m!

Wow you just proved you are only a PPL, and really dont understand what is going on. The Taxiway landing was every bit as bad if not worse. The so called medical emergancy has been moved to the cabin, off the flightdeck, so no longer a concern for distraction on the Flightdeck. And a medical emergancy is never an excuse to land on a taxiway, the needs of one do not outweight the safety of the other 200+, and if you cannot see that or make that tough call someday stay in a piper please. All it would have taken was 1 single 737 holding short on that taxiway and we would be discussing the 2nd greatest aviation disaster since tenneriffe. Do you honestly not see that....wow

Nigel, Welcome to JC....Let me allow you a second to open your mouth and change feet.......And I mean that in the nicest way.

1st, she just happens to be involved with a Delta CA/FO depending on the timing.

if that wasn't enough, you may want to check her credentials......

F/A......
F/A Training

I don't know your background, but considering hers, I am quite sure she is well versed in medical emergencies on a/c and the issue they raise.