New Captain bid out at American Eagle
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
This vacancy I guess is for both some new flying, and also for some of the anticipated flowthrough going over to AA. I think there is 180 guys that can flow over next year. After this bid closes it looks like I am about 140 from an upgrade. Hopefully the upgrades keep on coming.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Based on what I've been hearing from recruiting and elsewhere, you'll likely see this within the year. Possibly the next six months.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
The recruiters at ACE in Vegas said that Eagle is hiring for
1) flowthroughs..
2) expected other attrition..
3 additional staffing to meet requirements of new rest rules.
Those were 'official' statements.
There are rumors swirling that things may happen even faster than previously thought.
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
I heard AA may recall more than the 250 announced. If they do we may have more flowthroughs go over. Although they will have to go over to AA at first year pay which may make many want to stay at eagle.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Waa. They voted for it. Let 'em go. Granted, since those with numbers will be essentially treated as furloughees, if they bypass, that's their thing. That just rachets down to the 824 "preferential hiring slots". It equals movement for us one way or the other.
I haven't made Captain yet.. so if by odd chance I got the Captain bid just in time to get offered a slot to go to AA.. would I? Er, duh, heck yeah.
Something tells me those with the option/ability to go to AA will see it all happen very soon.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
I think you could be looking at 4-5 years before number 824 is in class at AA. Between the guys that are going to be too old to take a number (Time to Upgrade is 20 years so anyone over 45 can't take one) and FOs and CAs moving on to other airlines. I could see it working its way down to a 10 hire.
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
If it ever happens it will be interesting how far it would go down to. Eagle had a lot of guys declare eagle rights back in the day so one would assume that they don't want to go over to AA anymore than they did 10 years ago. Even some of the guys that already have AA numbers but not part of the 244, don't want to go because of starting at first year pay at AA. The time to upgrade thing is not going to be 20 years, I forgot how its computed but it won't be 20 years.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Probably not, but time changes all things. The landscape may be very different when that time comes. Like Gonzo said- there are a lot of dynamics in play here.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
I've confirmed what was previously stated. Junior Captain at Eagle (in the CRJ, no less) went to a 9/04 hire. Upgrade time drops to 6 years, 2 months.
I gotta admit, I was always a believer that the 'bubble would break' someday, but not this fast.
On a personal note, I tallied up the upgrades for FOs in my bid status. In the span of a year, I'll go from unable to hold the status to the senior half of the list. Life's about to get a lot easier.
Just goes to show nobody really knows how or when things will change. Good times.
I gotta admit, I was always a believer that the 'bubble would break' someday, but not this fast.
On a personal note, I tallied up the upgrades for FOs in my bid status. In the span of a year, I'll go from unable to hold the status to the senior half of the list. Life's about to get a lot easier.
Just goes to show nobody really knows how or when things will change. Good times.
pscraig
Well-Known Member
For those of us outside of AMR, how does the Eagle flowthrough to AA work exactly? Is it still in effect, and how many people are eligible to flow to AA? I keep hearing that AA might hire off the street at some point, but don't know how Eagle pilots play into those numbers.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
It is fairly confusing, but basically AA has to take something like 287 (might be slightly off) Eagle pilots. They took 35 of those this summer. Then AA had to recall all 100 or so furloughs from last year before taking more. That happened. Now AA has to offer recall to a certain amount of other furloughs, I think they were hosed TWA guys. They are doing that right now to fill 250 positions. The belief right now is that once this is finished, about 150 more Eagle pilots will go to AA. Then when AA hires more, the rest of the Eagle pilots will go. After that, AA has to recall all of their furloughs - I heard something like 2000. Once AA starts hiring off the street, they have to take 1 Eagle pilot for every street hire up to 858 pilots.
I hope I got all that close because I am even confused by it. Keep a few things in mind: AA will lose 5900 pilots in the next 15 years due to th age 65 rule alone. Eagle is up for sale, or divesture(it's own company). Noone is sure what will happen if Eagle gets spun off or sold. By the letter of the law, the arbitration agreement should hold, but no one really knows.
I hope I got all that close because I am even confused by it. Keep a few things in mind: AA will lose 5900 pilots in the next 15 years due to th age 65 rule alone. Eagle is up for sale, or divesture(it's own company). Noone is sure what will happen if Eagle gets spun off or sold. By the letter of the law, the arbitration agreement should hold, but no one really knows.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
This is close enough, but a few things are inaccurate. After the initial 35 Eagle Captains that flowed up in June 2010, the AA furloughs from February 2010 had to be recalled. Thereafter, all recalls to AA would be by seniority list order per the APA seniority list. This is important because approximately 300-400 senior Eagle Captains hold dated seniority numbers that place them senior to ALL of the TWA furloughs. In other words, the TWA guys would go after them, and purely by right of seniority. There are also another 150-200 Captains just after the 300-400 previously mentioned that were also awarded seniority numbers on the APA list, although I don't know what the dates are off the top of my head.
Thereafter, once all remaining AA furloughs were offered recall and AA started to hire off the street, every other hire had to be an Eagle Captain. 824 'preferential hiring slots' were awarded in the remedy award of the last Letter 3 grievance. When hiring off the street starts, every other newhire WILL be an Eagle Captain, by seniority number order, until 824 Captains have flowed. To qualify, one simply needs to upgrade to Captain, in any status, at any time now or later, and then be the next in line by seniority to be offered a class slot. The upside? The slots are not assigned to individuals- they're transferable. If one Captain declines, the slot doesn't go away- it just rachets down to the next Captain, until 824 eagle pilots have been given a job at AA.
In theory, this allows for approximately 1300-ish Eagle Captains to slide on over to AA, and 824 will not necessarily go to strictly the most senior.
What does this mean for off the street hires? At AA? Slow hiring for those not already at AMR for a long time. For Eagle? Rapid movement, and a much less senior pilot group in the next couple years.
Also- hiring off the street at AA would be trigger by going through the whole furlough list and offering recall and still needing pilots. During the last recalls, approximately 1 in 10 were taking recall. This number may skew as time goes on, but many pilots got jobs elsewhere and have since become fairly senior. Not everybody will come back. There will not be 2000 total recalled pilots. The list will run out before the number gets even close to that.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Thanks Charlie. I was just hoping to get close 
Essentially, a buttload 'o' folks going from Eagle to AA. Nice. I Ilike.
Essentially, a buttload 'o' folks going from Eagle to AA. Nice. I Ilike.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Thanks Charlie. I was just hoping to get close
Essentially, a buttload 'o' folks going from Eagle to AA. Nice. I Ilike.
More or less. I was in the LAX crew room for the day when the remedy award came out. Some of our most senior pilots had some really crazy questions.
I got well versed in the Letter 3 fiasco REAL quick. Piecing together a cogent understanding of how it all came about is even harder. It's like archeology!
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
After the 180 eagle guys go over to AA, its should be fun to watch how fast AA will go through the furough list. The last group they went through I think were only furloughed for a few years, but the group after the 180 eagle guys have probably been furloughed for over 10 years, I don't think many will come back. I think after the 180 eagle guys there is a little less than 300 eagle guys with AA seniority numbers of which 154 are at the very bottom of the AA list. I wouldn't be suprised the see the 824 go to AA in maybe 2 years, if the economy stats healthy.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Neither would I, honestly. American just bought some new 777's.. and is allegedly eying airplanes in the 100 seat category.
Things will happen.. and I get the feeling the end of the year might see some big changes.
In the ERJ fleet, things that make Captain training different than FO training are being removed, like the Circle To Land checking requirement. Apparently based on our required circling minima it no longer made any sense. I see the line blurring- and they just added sim time to qualified upgrade training to improve the pass rate.
Things are gearing up for a major turnover. I can all but smell that bad training center vending machine coffee.
