New 135 Freight Dog

[jspeed87]

Hey, I'm super excited to be hopefully soon start flying a Caravan for the Feeder ops. I was wondering what tips and recommendations are
out there as far as clothing (I will be flying in cold North East), luggage/flight bags, and tips for dealing with icing and cold weather ops in general.
It should only be a month of cold wx or so, before spring kicks around, but I'd at least like to be well prepared. Thanks again.

 

[msmspilot]

Always carry a toothbrush and change of underwear. I don’t care how much you’re promised to get Home that night. Stuff happens.

I always kept a windbreaker and baseball cap as rain gear. Won’t help in heavy rain, but it’s really nice to have something when it’s raining.

A backpack worked really well in my freight days.

Have fun, but don’t be stupid. If it doesn’t feel right, go around and try again/something else. The only times I was ever really in trouble flying freight, I put myself there, and knew I was. Except that one time with ice in an airplane with no deuce equipment...

 

[Mavmb]

Layers, fleece lined pants, carharts or a snow suit, boots, socks, a set of hand warmers, toe warmers, gloves, and then mittens to put over the gloves while waiting and a balaclava. Thats how I survived a Minnesota winter.

 

[av8tr1]

Welcome to the club.

Never let your customer push you into anything. Taking off into weather, overloading the plane, etc. YOU are PIC. That means YOU are the HMFIC.

Know your equipment. Know when it fails and how to compensate. SPIFR doesn't give you the option to turn to a co-pilot and discuss things.

Don't let maintenance sucker you into taking off with questionable equipment. If it's broke and you need it don't go.

YOU CAN ALWAYS GO AROUND OR GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Icing, have a plan to get out of it, before you get into it.

Bring a book (or some sort of entertainment) and warm clothing in the winter.

And always wear your sunscreen.

 

[msmspilot]

Layers, fleece lined pants, carharts or a snow suit, boots, socks, a set of hand warmers, toe warmers, gloves, and then mittens to put over the gloves while waiting and a balaclava. Thats how I survived a Minnesota winter.

I was in the deep south, and even here in Dixie, in the middle of the winter at 6-8,000', Carhartts were a life-saver. The heater in a 208 may work better than a 210, but in the 210, I had nights where I never unzipped the coat.

Also, some people will disagree with me, but you can get Air Force flight gloves at military surplus or ebay pretty cheap. They're not the super insulated stuff, but in a cold airplane, they keep you from the bitter cold without hampering your ability to manipulate switches.

 

[av8tr1]

While you are at it. I run a website for feeder pilots at www.freightpilots.com. Good place to ask questions. There are some 25 year van pilots on there who have seen it all. Just ask them they will tell you. ;-)

 

[jspeed87]

What are some good luggage flight bags for caravan guys? I expect to be taking advantage of jump seating on my off days for travel on the weekends when I can. Thanks again for the input.

 

[av8tr1]

What are some good luggage flight bags for caravan guys? I expect to be taking advantage of jump seating on my off days for travel on the weekends when I can. Thanks again for the input.

Lol, that’s so cute.....you think you are going to get enough time off to enjoy those jump seat privileges.

 

[jspeed87]

Lol, that’s so cute.....you think you are going to get enough time off to enjoy those jump seat privileges.

lol well apparently we can ride in the back of Southwest, but no jumpseat. I'd like to take the occasional weekend trip as we do have weekends off.. I just don't know how busy/tired I will be after a full week of work, especially if I'm new.

 

[jspeed87]

Is the Caravan that bad in Ice? What are some tactics/weather charts that can help in the preflight planning?

 

[mikecweb]

Is the Caravan that bad in Ice? What are some tactics/weather charts that can help in the preflight planning?

I flew a boot 'van, and it's been about 10 years but always give yourself an out. With boots the airspeed would decay to the point where you weren't fast enough to shed the ice. Gently climbs and then descents to pick up airspeed and shed some ice worked. I hear they got TKS on most of them now which probably makes it a whole lot easier.
Fly safe!

 

[av8tr1]

lol well apparently we can ride in the back of Southwest, but no jumpseat. I'd like to take the occasional weekend trip as we do have weekends off.. I just don't know how busy/tired I will be after a full week of work, especially if I'm new.

Your usual show time is between 5-6am. You'll get home around 6-7pm. You are going to be tired even with a nap at the outstation. Don't sleep more than an hour or you will be too tired for the rest of the day.

Is the Caravan that bad in Ice? What are some tactics/weather charts that can help in the preflight planning?

The Van can handle ice just fine. Just remember to climb not descend. Like Mike said, have an out ahead of time. Climbing gives you time to think and execute a back up. Find the warm air or the really cold stuff where ice doesn't form. You'll likely be flying a TKS system and you have time limitations but most of your runs will be under 1.5 hours. So plan to use the TKS accordinging and sparingly. You don't need max flow all the time. Even at max flow you have 1:20 of TKS fluid. If you need that much at max flow you should already be on the ground.

Also learn about tail stalls and icing and how to deal with them. That's what brought down Colgan Air.

Above all relax the Van can handle nearly everything you throw at it. It's a very forgiving and easy plane to fly. It's a giant 172. I've landed in heavy snow, ice, flown through a thunderstorm (that was more of a ride than me flying through it), 100 knot headwinds with my ground speed down around 30-40 knots. SLD where my windshield looked like it had exploded and it took it all like a champ.

I call it the Jeep of the sky. It will go anywhere, do anything you ask it to.

 

[Itchy]

With TKS, it will go through ice like a greased suppository. Like fuel, don’t run out.

 

[msmspilot]

Also learn about tail stalls and icing and how to deal with them. That's what brought down Colgan Air.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1001.pdf

The NTSB determined it was a regular aerodynamic stall due to slow airspeed. The slow airspeed was ice related. The Dash 8 was tested and is not normally susceptible to tail stalls.

 

[av8tr1]

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1001.pdf

The NTSB determined it was a regular aerodynamic stall due to slow airspeed. The slow airspeed was ice related. The Dash 8 was tested and is not normally susceptible to tail stalls.

My bad. Wasn’t there a major crash that was due to tail icing?

 

[mikecweb]

My bad. Wasn’t there a major crash that was due to tail icing?

There's been over 2 dozen accidents due to tail plane icing. Mostly caravans and king airs from what I remember.

 

[msmspilot]

My bad. Wasn’t there a major crash that was due to tail icing?

No problem. I’ve definitely never made a misstatement on a web forum before...

There are certainly planes with tail icing issues. ATR 42, Saab SF340A and Embraer EMB-100 all have ADs regarding tail ice. The twin Otter is apparently also susceptible.

I’m having trouble finding a major accident caused by tail ice, however, and ATR 42 crashed because of an ice ridge creating a low pressure in front of an aileron that caused a loss of control.

American Eagle 4184 in ‘94. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eagle_Flight_4184

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Hey, I'm super excited to be hopefully soon start flying a Caravan for the Feeder ops. I was wondering what tips and recommendations are
out there as far as clothing (I will be flying in cold North East), luggage/flight bags, and tips for dealing with icing and cold weather ops in general.
It should only be a month of cold wx or so, before spring kicks around, but I'd at least like to be well prepared. Thanks again.

Never forget the Pespi... or Coke... depending on the village. And always load it last so you can get it off first when you get to the village.... Oh, wait. That's Alaska.
Ask @Boris Badenov about Wx. I'm pretty sure he'll tell you either fly right through it like a man... or don't. He's binary like that.

 

[z987k]

There are some 25 year van pilots on there who have seen it all.

I feel like that's the literal opposite of have seen it all. Especially if they fly for a feeder.

 

[Itchy]

There's been over 2 dozen accidents due to tail plane icing. Mostly caravans and king airs from what I remember.

I don’t believe tail ice is an issue in the Van. Please link to any incidents where it was?